Posts Tagged ‘Prisoner of War’

Obama Should Keep Guantanamo Open but Change the Detention Procedures

January 26, 2009

Recently, Barack Obama issued an executive order that would close the detention facility at the  Guantanamo Bay Naval Base as well as review the detention status of all of the detainees.

Here’s that executive order, courtesy of the White House (note, if you want to skip all of the executive orders and just to my analysis, scroll toward the bottom :

EXECUTIVE ORDER — REVIEW AND DISPOSITION OF INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT THE GUANTÁNAMO BAY NAVAL BASE AND CLOSURE OF DETENTION FACILITIES        

   By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to effect the appropriate disposition of individuals currently detained by the Department of Defense at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base (Guantánamo) and promptly to close detention facilities at Guantánamo, consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice, I hereby order as follows:

        Section 1Definitions. As used in this order:

        (a)  “Common Article 3″ means Article 3 of each of the Geneva Conventions.

        (b)  “Geneva Conventions” means:

   (i)    the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3114);

   (ii)   the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3217);

   (iii)  the Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3316); and

   (iv)   the Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3516).

        (c) “Individuals currently detained at Guantánamo” and “individuals covered by this order” mean individuals currently detained by the Department of Defense in facilities at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base whom the Department of Defense has ever determined to be, or treated as, enemy combatants.

        Sec. 2Findings.

        (a)  Over the past 7 years, approximately 800 individuals whom the Department of Defense has ever determined to be, or treated as, enemy combatants have been detained at Guantánamo. The Federal Government has moved more than 500 such detainees from Guantánamo, either by returning them to their home country or by releasing or transferring them to a third country. The Department of Defense has determined that a number of the individuals currently detained at Guantánamo are eligible for such transfer or release.

      (b) Some individuals currently detained at Guantánamo have been there for more than 6 years, and most have been detained for at least 4 years. In view of the significant concerns raised by these detentions, both within the United States and internationally, prompt and appropriate disposition of the individuals currently detained at Guantánamo and closure of the facilities in which they are detained would further the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice. Merely closing the facilities without promptly determining the appropriate disposition of the individuals detained would not adequately serve those interests. To the extent practicable, the prompt and appropriate disposition of the individuals detained at Guantánamo should precede the closure of the detention facilities at Guantánamo.

        (c) The individuals currently detained at Guantánamo have the constitutional privilege of the writ of habeas corpus. Most of those individuals have filed petitions for a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court challenging the lawfulness of their detention.

        (d)  It is in the interests of the United States that the executive branch undertake a prompt and thorough review of the factual and legal bases for the continued detention of all individuals currently held at Guantánamo, and of whether their continued detention is in the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and in the interests of justice. The unusual circumstances associated with detentions at Guantánamo require a comprehensive interagency review.

        (e)  New diplomatic efforts may result in an appropriate disposition of a substantial number of individuals currently detained at Guantánamo.

        (f)  Some individuals currently detained at Guantánamo may have committed offenses for which they should be prosecuted. It is in the interests of the United States to review whether and how any such individuals can and should be prosecuted.

        (g)  It is in the interests of the United States that the executive branch conduct a prompt and thorough review of the circumstances of the individuals currently detained at Guantánamo who have been charged with offenses before military commissions pursuant to the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Public Law 109-366, as well as of the military commission process more generally.

        Sec. 3Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States.

        Sec. 4Immediate Review of All Guantánamo Detentions.

        (a) Scope and Timing of Review. A review of the status of each individual currently detained at Guantánamo (Review) shall commence immediately.

      (b) Review Participants. The Review shall be conducted with the full cooperation and participation of the following officials:

   (1)  the Attorney General, who shall coordinate the Review;

   (2)  the Secretary of Defense;

   (3)  the Secretary of State;

   (4)  the Secretary of Homeland Security;

   (5)  the Director of National Intelligence;

   (6)  the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and

   (7)  other officers or full-time or permanent part-time employees of the United States, including employees with intelligence, counterterrorism, military, and legal expertise, as determined by the Attorney General, with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency concerned.

        (c)  Operation of Review. The duties of the Review participants shall include the following:

   (1)  Consolidation of Detainee Information. The Attorney General shall, to the extent reasonably practicable, and in coordination with the other Review participants, assemble all information in the possession of the Federal Government that pertains to any individual currently detained at Guantánamo and that is relevant to determining the proper disposition of any such individual. All executive branch departments and agencies shall promptly comply with any request of the Attorney General to provide information in their possession or control pertaining to any such individual. The Attorney General may seek further information relevant to the Review from any source.

   (2)  Determination of Transfer. The Review shall determine, on a rolling basis and as promptly as possible with respect to the individuals currently detained at Guantánamo, whether it is possible to transfer or release the individuals consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and, if so, whether and how the Secretary of Defense may effect their transfer or release. The Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of State, and, as appropriate, other Review participants shall work to effect promptly the release or transfer of all individuals for whom release or transfer is possible.

   (3)  Determination of Prosecution. In accordance with United States law, the cases of individuals detained at Guantánamo not approved for release or transfer shall be evaluated to determine whether the Federal Government should seek to prosecute the detained individuals for any offenses they may have committed, including whether it is feasible to prosecute such individuals before a court established pursuant to Article III of the United States Constitution, and the Review participants shall in turn take the necessary and appropriate steps based on such determinations.

   (4)  Determination of Other Disposition. With respect to any individuals currently detained at Guantánamo whose disposition is not achieved under paragraphs (2) or (3) of this subsection, the Review shall select lawful means, consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice, for the disposition of such individuals. The appropriate authorities shall promptly implement such dispositions.

   (5)  Consideration of Issues Relating to Transfer to the United States. The Review shall identify and consider legal, logistical, and security issues relating to the potential transfer of individuals currently detained at Guantánamo to facilities within the United States, and the Review participants shall work with the Congress on any legislation that may be appropriate.

        Sec. 5Diplomatic Efforts. The Secretary of State shall expeditiously pursue and direct such negotiations and diplomatic efforts with foreign governments as are necessary and appropriate to implement this order.

        Sec. 6Humane Standards of Confinement. No individual currently detained at Guantánamo shall be held in the custody or under the effective control of any officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government, or at a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States, except in conformity with all applicable laws governing the conditions of such confinement, including Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. The Secretary of Defense shall immediately undertake a review of the conditions of detention at Guantánamo to ensure full compliance with this directive. Such review shall be completed within 30 days and any necessary corrections shall be implemented immediately thereafter.

        Sec. 7Military Commissions.  The Secretary of Defense shall immediately take steps sufficient to ensure that during the pendency of the Review described in section 4 of this order, no charges are sworn, or referred to a military commission under the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and the Rules for Military Commissions, and that all proceedings of such military commissions to which charges have been referred but in which no judgment has been rendered, and all proceedings pending in the United States Court of Military Commission Review, are halted.

        Sec. 8General Provisions.

        (a) Nothing in this order shall prejudice the authority of the Secretary of Defense to determine the disposition of any detainees not covered by this order.

        (b)  This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

        (c)  This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

     BARACK OBAMA

     THE WHITE HOUSE,

     January 22, 2009. 

Alright, so there’s the executive order to close the detention center within a year.  Personally, other than Section 3, I really don’t have a problem with this executive order.  I just don’t see the need to close the detention center itself.  The detention center isn’t the problem.  The problem (and I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with people’s stance on the problem) has to do with whether or not we can hold them while denying  them the writ of habeas corpus.  That has NOTHING to do with WHERE the detention center is.  We could hold them here in the U.S. and we could still deny them habeas corpus.  Or we could keep them in Guantanamo and let them live like it’s a Hilton hotel.  My point is – Guantanamo, the detention center, really has nothing to do with the problem, other than it’s become an image of a violation of human rights.

President Obama also issued the following executive order, to figure out what we’re going to do with those accused of committing acts of terrorism:

EXECUTIVE ORDER — REVIEW OF DETENTION POLICY OPTIONS

   By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to develop policies for the detention, trial, transfer, release, or other disposition of individuals captured or apprehended in connection with armed conflicts and counterterrorism operations that are consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice, I hereby order as follows:

   Section 1Special Interagency Task Force on Detainee Disposition.

   (a) Establishment of Special Interagency Task Force. There shall be established a Special Task Force on Detainee Disposition (Special Task Force) to identify lawful options for the disposition of individuals captured or apprehended in connection with armed conflicts and counterterrorism operations.

   (b) Membership. The Special Task Force shall consist of the following members, or their designees:

   (i)     the Attorney General, who shall serve as Co-Chair;

   (ii)    the Secretary of Defense, who shall serve as Co-Chair;

   (iii)   the Secretary of State;

   (iv)    the Secretary of Homeland Security;

   (v)     the Director of National Intelligence;

   (vi)    the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency;

   (vii)   the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and

   (viii)      other officers or full-time or permanent part-time employees of the United States, as determined by either of the Co-Chairs, with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency concerned.

   (c) Staff. Either Co-Chair may designate officers and employees within their respective departments to serve as staff to support the Special Task Force. At the request of the Co-Chairs, officers and employees from other departments or agencies may serve on the Special Task Force with the concurrence of the heads of the departments or agencies that employ such individuals. Such staff must be officers or full-time or permanent part-time employees of the United States. The Co-Chairs shall jointly select an officer or employee of the Department of Justice or Department of Defense to serve as the Executive Secretary of the Special Task Force.

   (d) Operation. The Co-Chairs shall convene meetings of the Special Task Force, determine its agenda, and direct its work. The Co-Chairs may establish and direct subgroups of the Special Task Force, consisting exclusively of members of the Special Task Force, to deal with particular subjects.

   (e) Mission. The mission of the Special Task Force shall be to conduct a comprehensive review of the lawful options available to the Federal Government with respect to the apprehension, detention, trial, transfer, release, or other disposition of individuals captured or apprehended in connection with armed conflicts and counterterrorism operations, and to identify such options as are consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice.

   (f) Administration. The Special Task Force shall be established for administrative purposes within the Department of Justice, and the Department of Justice shall, to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, provide administrative support and funding for the Special Task Force.

   (g) Report. The Special Task Force shall provide a report to the President, through the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and the Counsel to the President, on the matters set forth in subsection (d) within 180 days of the date of this order unless the Co-Chairs determine that an extension is necessary, and shall provide periodic preliminary reports during those 180 days.

   (h) Termination. The Co-Chairs shall terminate the Special Task Force upon the completion of its duties.

   Sec. 2General Provisions.

   (a) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

   (b) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

     BARACK OBAMA

       THE WHITE HOUSE,

     January 22, 2009.

Alright, that’s a GREAT executive order there, because if he’s going to go through with closing the Guantanamo detention center, we need to have a place to put the alleged terrorists.

And lastly, we have an executive order dealing with interrogation processes:

EXECUTIVE ORDER — ENSURING LAWFUL INTERROGATIONS

By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to improve the effectiveness of human intelligence gathering, to promote the safe, lawful, and humane treatment of individuals in United States custody and of United States personnel who are detained in armed conflicts, to ensure compliance with the treaty obligations of the United States, including the Geneva Conventions, and to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:

Section 1.  Revocation.  Executive Order 13440 of July 20, 2007, is revoked.  All executive directives, orders, and regulations inconsistent with this order, including but not limited to those issued to or by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from September 11, 2001, to January 20, 2009, concerning detention or the interrogation of detained individuals, are revoked to the extent of their inconsistency with this order.  Heads of departments and agencies shall take all necessary steps to ensure that all directives, orders, and regulations of their respective departments or agencies are consistent with this order.  Upon request, the Attorney General shall provide guidance about which directives, orders, and regulations are inconsistent with this order.
Sec. 2.  Definitions.  As used in this order:

(a)  “Army Field Manual 2 22.3″ means FM 2-22.3, Human Intelligence Collector Operations, issued by the Department of the Army on September 6, 2006.

(b)  “Army Field Manual 34-52″ means FM 34-52, Intelligence Interrogation, issued by the Department of the Army on May 8, 1987.

(c)  “Common Article 3″ means Article 3 of each of the Geneva Conventions.

(d)  “Convention Against Torture” means the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, December 10, 1984, 1465 U.N.T.S. 85, S. Treaty Doc. No. 100 20 (1988).

(e)  “Geneva Conventions” means:

 (i)    the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3114);

 (ii)   the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3217);

 (iii)  the Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3316); and

 (iv)   the Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3516).

(f)  “Treated humanely,” “violence to life and person,” “murder of all kinds,” “mutilation,” “cruel treatment,” “torture,” “outrages upon personal dignity,” and “humiliating and degrading treatment” refer to, and have the same meaning as, those same terms in Common Article 3.

(g)  The terms “detention facilities” and “detention facility” in section 4(a) of this order do not refer to facilities used only to hold people on a short-term, transitory basis.

Sec. 3.  Standards and Practices for Interrogation of Individuals in the Custody or Control of the United States in Armed Conflicts.

(a)  Common Article 3 Standards as a Minimum Baseline.  Consistent with the requirements of the Federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. 2340 2340A, section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, 42 U.S.C. 2000dd, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, and other laws regulating the treatment and interrogation of individuals detained in any armed conflict, such persons shall in all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected to violence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity (including humiliating and degrading treatment), whenever such individuals are in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States.

(b)  Interrogation Techniques and Interrogation-Related Treatment.  Effective immediately, an individual in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government, or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States, in any armed conflict, shall not be subjected to any interrogation technique or approach, or any treatment related to interrogation, that is not authorized by and listed in Army Field Manual 2 22.3 (Manual).  Interrogation techniques, approaches, and treatments described in the Manual shall be implemented strictly in accord with the principles, processes, conditions, and limitations the Manual prescribes.  Where processes required by the Manual, such as a requirement of approval by specified Department of Defense officials, are inapposite to a department or an agency other than the Department of Defense, such a department or agency shall use processes that are substantially equivalent to the processes the Manual prescribes for the Department of Defense.  Nothing in this section shall preclude the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or other Federal law enforcement agencies, from continuing to use authorized, non-coercive techniques of interrogation that are designed to elicit voluntary statements and do not involve the use of force, threats, or promises.

(c)  Interpretations of Common Article 3 and the Army Field Manual.  From this day forward, unless the Attorney General with appropriate consultation provides further guidance, officers, employees, and other agents of the United States Government may, in conducting interrogations, act in reliance upon Army Field Manual 2 22.3, but may not, in conducting interrogations, rely upon any interpretation of the law governing interrogation — including interpretations of Federal criminal laws, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, Army Field Manual 2 22.3, and its predecessor document, Army Field Manual 34 52    issued by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009.
Sec. 4.  Prohibition of Certain Detention Facilities, and Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals.

(a)  CIA Detention.  The CIA shall close as expeditiously as possible any detention facilities that it currently operates and shall not operate any such detention facility in the future.

(b)  International Committee of the Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals.  All departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall provide the International Committee of the Red Cross with notification of, and timely access to, any individual detained in any armed conflict in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States Government, consistent with Department of Defense regulations and policies.
Sec. 5.  Special Interagency Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies.

(a)  Establishment of Special Interagency Task Force.  There shall be established a Special Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies (Special Task Force) to review interrogation and transfer policies.

(b)  Membership.  The Special Task Force shall consist of the following members, or their designees:

 (i)     the Attorney General, who shall serve as Chair;

 (ii)    the Director of National Intelligence, who shall serve as Co-Vice-Chair;

 (iii)   the Secretary of Defense, who shall serve as Co-Vice-Chair;

 (iv)    the Secretary of State;

 (v)     the Secretary of Homeland Security;

 (vi)    the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency;

 (vii)   the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and

 (viii)  other officers or full-time or permanent part time employees of the United States, as determined by the Chair, with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency concerned.

(c)  Staff.  The Chair may designate officers and employees within the Department of Justice to serve as staff to support the Special Task Force.  At the request of the Chair, officers and employees from other departments or agencies may serve on the Special Task Force with the concurrence of the head of the department or agency that employ such individuals.  Such staff must be officers or full-time or permanent part-time employees of the United States.  The Chair shall designate an officer or employee of the Department of Justice to serve as the Executive Secretary of the Special Task Force.

(d)  Operation.  The Chair shall convene meetings of the Special Task Force, determine its agenda, and direct its work.  The Chair may establish and direct subgroups of the Special Task Force, consisting exclusively of members of the Special Task Force, to deal with particular subjects.

(e)  Mission.  The mission of the Special Task Force shall be:

 (i)   to study and evaluate whether the interrogation practices and techniques in Army Field Manual 2 22.3, when employed by departments or agencies outside the military, provide an appropriate means of acquiring the intelligence necessary to protect the Nation, and, if warranted, to recommend any additional or different guidance for other departments or agencies; and

 (ii)  to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.

(f)  Administration.  The Special Task Force shall be established for administrative purposes within the Department of Justice and the Department of Justice shall, to
the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, provide administrative support and funding for the Special Task Force.

(g)  Recommendations.  The Special Task Force shall provide a report to the President, through the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and the Counsel to the President, on the matters set forth in subsection (d) within 180 days of the date of this order, unless the Chair determines that an extension is necessary.

(h)  Termination.  The Chair shall terminate the Special Task Force upon the completion of its duties.
Sec. 6.  Construction with Other Laws.  Nothing in this order shall be construed to affect the obligations of officers, employees, and other agents of the United States Government to comply with all pertinent laws and treaties of the United States governing detention and interrogation, including but not limited to:  the Fifth and Eighth Amendments to the United States Constitution; the Federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. 2340 2340A; the War Crimes Act, 18 U.S.C. 2441; the Federal assault statute, 18 U.S.C. 113; the Federal maiming statute, 18 U.S.C. 114; the Federal “stalking” statute, 18 U.S.C. 2261A; articles 93, 124, 128, and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 893, 924, 928, and 934; section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, 42 U.S.C. 2000dd; section 6(c) of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Public Law 109 366; the Geneva Conventions; and the Convention Against Torture.  Nothing in this order shall be construed to diminish any rights that any individual may have under these or other laws and treaties.  This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity against the United States, its departments, agencies, or other entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
January 22, 2009

 Honestly, that’s REALLY the most important executive order that he needed to issue in order to remedy the human rights / Constitutional violations.

I really don’t think that Guantanamo detention center needs to be closed.  If Obama wants to simply use better interrogation methods and restore the writ of habeas corpus, closing Guantanamo, in and of itself doesn’t do that.  All he really has to do is change the process of how we handle accused terrorists.

Instead, he has chosen to close Gitmo, and that creates a problem: What do we do with the alleged terrorists?

We can’t put them in normal prisons with other prisoners.  Sex offenders and child molesters already have problems in prison.  Can you imagine what prisoners would do if they were around an accused terrorist?  The terrorist wouldn’t last more than maybe a week.

So, that means that we have to build a new prison.  Well, where are we going to do that?  Nobody will want the prison in “their backyard.”  What if a prisoner escapes?  That means that a terrorist is running around.  People aren’t going to want to risk that in their neighborhood.  Obama is going to find it very difficult to find somewhere that will/can take these prisoners.

Personally, as long as the prison was secure (and I mean REALLY secure), I wouldn’t mind having it in Michigan.  We’d definitely have to build a new prison, since we don’t have enough room in our prisons as it is.

Still, I think the best way to deal with the terrorist detainees is to keep them in Guantanamo Bay.  If Obama wants to ensure that they have more rights/privileges/whatever you want to call it, he can instruct his Attorney General to give them to the detainees, but closing Gitmo only creates more problems.

Done Ranting,

Ranting Republican
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McCain Deserves Respect from ALL Americans for His Service

March 20, 2008

OK, so I was on reddit and got in a debate with some Ron Paul supporter named Private_Freedom (warning – that link goes straight to his profile where he has posted some disgusting and perverted comments) who criticized McCain for serving his country:  Here’s the original conversation (edited for swearing), also available here (my posts are in gray, his in black:

McCain is a f*cking uneducated, lazy, angry, war-mongering and stupid excuse for a candidate. The puppet master Rockefellers WANT to maintain the occupation of the middle east to prop up the value of a WORTHLESS piece of paper by enforcing the pricing of oil in dollars.

Iraq’s oil went off the dollar in 2000, so they were invaded, and immediately went back to dollars. Iran is doing the same thing, and now they too are being threatened.

McCain is a f*cking TOOL for the NWO. The sad thing is that he honestly thinks he is doing the right thing, the idiot.

The Viet Cong should never have released his *ss out of their concentration camp. But then again, if they didn’t, then I would be saying the same thing to whoever the NWO would have replaced him with.

Saying that a POW never should’ve been released is un-American and disgustingly inhumane – I don’t care how much you disagree with his politics.

I don’t care how much you disagree with me!

If his politics were kept to himself, then I would not have said what I said.

But because his politics affect ME, and MY LIFE, negatively, THEN I have every right to say his *ss should have been left in the camp. He is an evil and vindictive man.

And BTW, being “American” means being able to have your own f*cking opinion, not being subservient to tyrants just because they are American. If you say bad things about Jeffrey Dalmer [later changed to the correct spelling, "Dahmer"], are you “unamerican”?

You are a sheep, a f*cking tool, a peon, a serf for the state.

F*ck off and grow a pair, *sshole.

Jeffrey Dahmer you mean?

And just because you don’t honor people who were willing to give their lives to protect you doesn’t mean that I have to grow a pair.

Go out there yourself you selfish idiot – grow a pair and go out and defend this country – or you could just leave and make the country a better place.

“Defend this country”???

From WHAT?

Terrorism is a f*cking HOAX, designed solely so that the NWO can take control of middle eastern oil. Only way to prop up US dollar.

Osama Bin Laden was a CIA agent, he was paid by the CIA to fight the Russians.

The WTC attacks were an inside job. WTC 7 came down like a controlled demolition when it wasn’t even hit by a plane, there was a 10,000% increase in put options on the two airline companies in the days before the false flag attacks, Steven Jones conducted a chemical analysis on the WTC debris and found THERMATE in it, the list goes on and on.

And your attempt at guilt, well, if someone risked their lives to fight against Vietnam, ANOTHER bullsh*t war, and that person turned out to be a tyrant, he deserves no respect.

Don’t be a f*cking SHEEP.

So, if the Iraq War is a “bullsh*t [censor was placed in original text] war,” are our soldiers over there also deserving of no respect?

OK, please understand this:

You must always be wary of making the huge error of taking your own position and views, and then assuming that the rest of the country thinks the same as you.

The reason you should not do this is because you are not at all concerned with the truth when you do this, you are actually simply wanting to be in the majority, so that your weak personality won’t feel so detached from the rest of mankind. So you ASSUME you are in the majority. Well, I have some news for you that you might find surprising.

I don’t think you quite understand the extent of the country’s beliefs. Have you even bothered to research the polls that are taken regarding 9/11? You obviously have not, because in poll after poll, it is actually YOU who is in the minority. Over 60% of the population believes the government was involved in the attacks.

Now, I personally do not by any means imply that MY concept of truth is derived by polls. I believed that the government was behind it as soon as it happened, when the majority of the population were immediately conditioned to blame “islamic extremists”. On that day, all the news outlets were reporting that Osama was behind the attacks. How would they know so soon? At any rate, the “normal” American is in agreement with ME, NOT you.

Second, the Iraq OCCUPATION (notice I did not say “War”) IS complete bullsh*t, as the “normal” American now knows to be true, hence it’s infamy.

“We” do not have “soldiers”. The soldiers are forced to be created. I have never hired a soldier to protect me, and I don’t intend to, because I KNOW in my heart that there is nobody in the world who would want to kill me so that having a soldier protector is justified. It’s called personal choice.

Those soldiers in the middle east are NOT fighting for you and me. You are a f*cking KNOB if you believe that. No, the soldiers are fighting over there so that THE ELITE can maintain their standard of living, even if it means EMPOVERISHING the rest of the nation, which is what these occupations are doing.

Your life is being HARMED by wars, occupations, soldiers, missiles, tanks, guns, and death.

Those soldiers over in the middle east DESERVE ZERO RESPECT FROM ME, because I did not ask for their sucking me dry of my lifeblood to secure oil fields so that the NWO can stay in their mansions without working for them.

Those f*cking god d*mn “soldiers”, or rather hired goons, are KILLING and RAPING children, they are KILLING innocent people, they are TORTURING people, they are F*CKING EVIL!!

How in god’s name can you support people who fucking TORTURE other people for fun? WHat are you, some kind of sick f*ck?

F*CK YOU YOU F*CKING SICK F*CK!!

What polls? Zogby and 2 Scripps Howard Polls say that most Americans believe that the Government did NOT do it.According to CBS, 65% in 2002 and 53% in 2006 said that the government was hiding something, but that doesn’t mean that they did it.

The soldiers really don’t have a choice – if you’re in the military, you have to go.It sounds like you’re just some anti-war hippie who didn’t get enough dope today so you’re kinda crabby (and I never said that I wanted America to be in Iraq, but we’re there – we need to put Senator Hagel’s plan into action, move our troops to the border and let the Iraqis deal with the civil war).

And how are the soldiers “forced to be created?” Are you referring to defense contractors – because I will agree that we shouldn’t have mercenaries over there, but our Marines and Army men and Navy men and Air Force men are over there (I have friends over there) – so no they aren’t “created” – our soldiers are over there dying. Show some respect.

Ahhh…there’s the rub: “just some anti-war hippie”, and “show some respect”.

  1. What difference does it make who I am? Focus on ideas only; and
  2. NO! I will NOT show respect to those who are KILLING and RAPING children, and TORTURING people. YOU can respect that behaviour, which would make you a sick f*ck, but I certainly will NOT condone nor respect that behaviour. It is UNBELEIVABLE that you think there is such thing as people who are so-called “above moral judgments”. THAT is exactly the f*cking attitude at play and why we are so hated around the world. The government and military talks talks talks about morality, but they are some of the most immoral people in the world.

Really, you respect torture, rape and killing of innocent people? I don’t want to hear any of that “it’s just a few bad apples sh*t”. This problem is WIDESPREAD.

I could give a f*ck if you have friends in Iraq. If you have friends in Iraq, your judgments for picking friends STINKS.

And YES, the soldiers ARE created. They are created by dangling a money carrot in front of poverty stricken teens, who believe there is no other path to take. It is the GOVERNMENT who decides HOW MUCH money is available for the military. Since the money the government offers is either stolen via taxation or counterfeited via inflation, those soldiers that are created on the back of that immoral funding are THEMSELVES IMMORAL.

What would you think if the government decided one day to steal everyone’s money savings throuh taxation, hire a bunch of soldiers (population of which is available now that business is so weak due to high taxation and theft, which will result in massive unemployment)? Would you think that the 300 million American soldiers now in existence should be RESPECTED simply because they are soldiers?

If not, then why would you think it is true if “only some” soldiers are created via less taxation. In both cases, they would NOT exist to nearly the same extent if paying the soldiers was voluntary, which would be REAL DEMOCRACY in action. If soldiers are being funded by massive counterfeiting and theft, THEN THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTING ME AT ALL. They are actually fighting for a small section of the population only, namely the government and international bankers.

You have been so incredibly BRAINWASHED into thinking that troops NEED to be supported ipso facto, simply because they are troops. You do not care how they act, what they do, who they kill, who they rape, who they torture. You do not care because you have already long ago, it seems, DEHUMANIZED the Iraqi population. You have dehumanized these people into something LESS THAN HUMAN, because in all your f*cking babbling, you never once mentioned the innocent people getting killed, you only focus on American soldiers and whether they have air conditioning, and the support of the population over here.

You are an evil, corrupt, brainwashed, sheepified, dumbified, stupified, f*cking anti-human ANIMAL, who would be in an insane asylum if this country were more enlightened. But because this country is being led by psychos, psychosis is ENCOURAGED in the population. This means YOU.

You are a sick f*ck. I cannot believe there are people like you in this world who can honestly think that innocent humans can be treated so terribly.

F*CK YOU!

And what proof do you have that all of our soldiers are rapists?

And I’m not the one who would be in an assylum. I’m not the one behiving like a vulgar animal / somebody with Tourette’s syndrome.

And we’re killing children over there because some of the children are killing us – it’s not just like our troops just shoot at anybody they see – it’s not some fun game for them.

IT IS A FUN GAME!!!!

And nice f*cking try to twist my words. I never said ALL the soldiers are rapists. I said it is WIDESPREAD.

And Proof? You want PROOF?? Have you been living under a ROCK for the last 8 years???

You are a fool.

And yes, the soldiers ARE killing and raping Iraqis FOR FUN.

Geez, all you gave to do is f*cking GOOGLE it!! You are so incredibly LAZY. You are a typical fat f*ck American that makes us look so bad.

Proof soldiers are RAPING children:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html

Proof soldiers are TORTURING innocent Iraqis:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.photos/

Proof soldiers are KILLING FOR FUN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FD1jHueZZc

(you have to log in to view this completely SICK video).

So, again, EDUCATE YOURSELF YOU SICK F*CK!!

The soldiers are EVIL!!!

Also, there’s no proof that the tortured Iraqis were innocent (not that we should be using torture).

Also, in the video of of killing for fun, your video says at the end, “No unarmed people were hurt during shooting” – you don’t know the background – how do you know that those people weren’t terrorists.

And no, it’s not a fun game – ask my friends who risk their lives over there.

You’re HOPELESS.

I cannot believe how you can sleep at night.

You should REALLY look into your soul and think about what kind of a person you are because, quite frankly, you seem like a regular guy, but with a psychotic conscience.

Maybe you would be good at torturing people if there is ever a draft. That can be your job and I am sure you will enjoy every minute of it.

Maybe it’s the food or the water, but this country really is filled with a bunch of philosophical and intellectual psychos just like you.

You should stay at home and play video games. That way you won’t be a menace to society.

You didn’t respond to my points – your own video claims that no unarmed people were hurt.

And I said that I don’t support torture – so no, I wouldn’t be good at it.

Now address my point – how were they just killing for fun if no unarmed people were hurt?

Uh…did you not see the guy on the road?? Did you not read the title of the video?? Are you insane??

Answers:

Yes, but not important Yes, but not important Yes, but not important

More proof for a moron like yourself:

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=24806

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77064/

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/47B84A27-4CB3-4589-9D48-F68B0DB4AFB6.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17393.htm

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/civi-j17.shtml

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/07/01/news/nation/12_01_146_30_06.txt

And for the record, YOU did not respond to MY points.

You simply stay in your bubble and refuse to raise your consciousness.

A title doesn’t mean anything – I can title a video of a cat dancing “Dog eating a muffin” – the end of the video says that no unarmed people were hurt.

And you’re just giving examples – sure these things happen, but not on a widespread scale. These bad soldiers account for a minute amount of all of the soldiers that are over there. I’m not defending them – I’m defending the rest of them.

Keep your head in the sand.

At least that way the world won’t have to listen to your assinine false flag, patriotism propaganda.

I’m done with your ignorant *ss.

KILL ALL F*CKING IRAQI WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!

So it ends with you refusing to answer my question – because you know that you don’t have an answer. No innocent Iraqis were killed, so you resort to just quitting.

So, it ended with me winning because he posted a video without looking at it, and he claimed that innocent Iraqis were killed, when the video itself says otherwise.

I post all of this to say that no matter what party somebody is from, if they served or are serving their country in the military, they deserve respect for that (with exceptions for people who are dishonorably discharged or some of the people at Abu Ghraib, etc…).

It saddens me and angered me (and I tried to stay as civil as possible, but I jost lost it with the guy) that people think of our soldiers like that, and the comment about the Viet Cong not releasing McCain was just inhumane and DISGUSTING!

Done Ranting,

Ranting Republican
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