Michigan May Give Nonviolent Felons a Second Chance

Earlier this week, Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano (Democrat) released his outline for a plan that would help onetime nonviolent felons expunge their records.  Here are the stipulations:

  • The crime must have been nonviolent.
  • The felon must stay clean for five years after committing the crime.

As of now, hiring attorneys to get one’s record expunged can cost anywhere from $1,500 to $5,000.  This cost would be put on the county and would cost the county about $400 per expungement, “a good investment in making people employable,” according to an op-ed (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008803060364) in the Detroit Free Press.

Ficano’s plan would pay the legal records and fees and help the felon by “bringing together representatives [from the] prosecutor’s office, [the] Michigan State Police, and Legal Aid and Defender, [‘the largest provider of free legal services to the indigent in Michigan’] offices” (Detroit Free Press).

So let me get this straight.  You want my tax dollars to go toward expunging some felon, so that I could be hiring somebody convicted of embezzlement, grand theft, or racketeering as my companies CFO?  Or what about an arsonist (I’m not sure if it’s considered a nonviolent crime, but if you burn down your house for the insurance claim, I don’t see how that would be a violent crime).  What about fraud?  I could be hiring a burglar or somebody convicted of theft as my head of security!

The op-ed says that around 1.3 million Michiganders, or 1 in 6 adults, have felony records.  No wonder Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson the Great (Republican) says stuff like, “Everybody should go out and buy a gun. I recommend an Uzi. If you don’t like guns, then I suggest you buy a pair of guard dogs, preferably a pit bull and a Rottweiler.”

When our elected officials go around with plans that would erase the criminal records of criminals at the expense of TAXPAYERS, I wonder if they aren’t being bribed by the felons.  This is ridiculous.  Sure Michigan needs jobs, but we don’t have to completely kill our legal system so that we can hire people.  Felons are prohibited from holding certain jobs for a reason…they’re felons!

Now, if you want to hire somebody who was convicted of embezzlement as your company’s CFO, go right ahead, but you should have the legal right to know that the man (or woman) was convicted of embezzlement.

Done Ranting,

Ranting Republican
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284 Responses to “Michigan May Give Nonviolent Felons a Second Chance”

  1. hoppersean Says:


    Kinda starting to wonder what the “upside” is to being a middle class taxpayer with no criminal record and paying my bills on time…

    Oh wait, that’s right I’m already “A Winner of Life’s Lottery”. I should be thankful the government lets me send in my hard earned tax dollars to give non-violent felons the opportunity to become violent felons. (I think they’re already doing this in Ohio)

  2. inkslwc Says:

    Especially in Wayne County. Think about it. You have somebody in Detroit get arrested for grand theft. He stays clean for 5 years, and that’s wiped off his record at my expense. It’s ridiculous.

    There comes a point where I say, “Screw the economy.” Controlling crime is more important.

    And what happens if a company falls victim to embezzlement because of this? Are they just supposed to lose that money? It’s not their fault that they didn’t know that ______ was a felon but had his record expunged.

  3. stopficano.com Says:

    Its time for Ficano to go.


  4. hilton graham Says:

    Mr. fiacano i made a big mistake in 1994 it was costly to my career i worked in nursing field moon lightling and coaching. i havent been in involved in anything since and will always be a model citizen. i downloaded the expungement program verification form and where do i mail or call someone for father informantion

  5. inkslwc Says:

    Just curious, what did you do in 1994?

  6. babydiva Says:

    You have no idea what you are talking about. It’s very, very easy to judge others isn’t it. You have no idea what it’s like for someone who was convicted for a non-violent crime. You have no idea what their families go through. I am married to a great person who deserves a second chance. He is completely discriminated against– and can not get any kind of job. Put yourself in this position and see how it feels. Not only does the person with the felony struggle, but it’s the entire family– children and all. Think about somebody else besides you for a change.

  7. inkslwc Says:

    I am – I’m thinking about all the people that this plan could hurt.

    Just out of curiosity, what did your husband do?

  8. hoppersean Says:

    We all make choices. Choices that can and should have consequences.
    I can still hear my parents telling me, “You did it to yourself”.

  9. Terry Says:

    I agree that a convicted none violent crime felon should have a second chance!!people make mistakes,im sure we all have done something at one time are another that we regreat because nobodys perfect..the same ones sitting here passing judgements are the main ones with secrets buried very deep i bet!!!tax dollars…lets talk about that….felons they cant get a job,cant vote,cant protect themselves in there own home with a wepon..BUT…they are ALLOWED TO PAY TAXES!!!!just like you,therfor there tax dollars are helping YOU in some form are fashion…right????regardless of there background…right???yeah i thought so,just remember any one can leave there home with no intentions of catching a charge or breaking any laws!!most of you drive right???ok u get up to go to work,normal routine,ur running late,speeding a little man woman are child runs out in front of you,you cant stop on time…you hit hurt and could kill them….your sorry,you never ment to hurt no one…BAM!!there goes your felony charge!!you go to jail,life starts going down hill,now not only did u deal with dirty cells,you got ur self a fresh felony,u lost alot,nightmares of the accident are hunting your every thought,you lost your job because you dident have bond money,you cant find another because you have a felony,you beg and plead because you just wont that second chance to get ahead again and in the back of your mind…it wasent your fault you did nothing wrong…news flash…nobody sees it that way but you!!EASE UP PEOPLE…MOST PEOPLE CONVICT THEM SELVES BECAUSE OF LACK OF FUNDS..THEY PLEA OUT,BECAUSE THEY DONT WONT TO DO TIME IN JAIL..WHO DOES??ALL PEOPLE,ARENT BAD PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT!!

  10. inkslwc Says:

    You’re telling me that somebody who hits a kid while speeding didn’t do anything wrong! What the heck is speeding then? Speeding is wrong! Any time you break the law, it’s wrong.

    You’ve missed my whole point. Sure, people make mistakes, but there are consequences. Personally, I don’t think anybody’s record should be expunged, but it definitely shouldn’t be at my expense.

    And your point about felons paying taxes to benefit me is just wrong. He’s paying taxes to benefit what I’m doing legally. Why should I pay taxes to benefit his ILLEGAL actions?

    If you’re so caring and compassionate about these “innocent” felons, why not start a charity that does this for them?

  11. Terry Says:

    First of all my comment was not directed towards one person….its to whoever feels the need to pass judgement!!i guess you must fit that description…second..so you are saying you never been over the speed limit?????if you answered no to this i cant do nothing but lol!!!even in cruise controll the car doesent always stay at speed limit,you have to adjust it at times are hit the breaks!!!!most people have done things that they never have gotton caught for….maybe just smart enough to stop befor they did!!!taxes are taxes!!it doesent have a race are background check that comes along with it!!!so..it doesent make a difference what you think,all of those who work are helping each other one way are another!!whos to say your doing things leagally???but i dont no you…and have no right to pass that judgement,but can u honestly say that you have never broken the law????ran through…lets say a yellow light that turned red befor you got under it????rode the hov lane with one person in the car??even if it was only to pass a slow car going not so fast as you would like???nobodys perfect,i no that there are consequences for all actions,some people never learn,but others have served there time for whatever crime they commited and learned from their mistakes…so they dont deserve a second chance to prove themselves worthy of being a good citizen again is what your saying?????felony is just a NAME that the goverment came up with and gave a meaning too!!personally i think there shouldent be a difference in a felony are a mistermenor

  12. Terry Says:

    WHY??because a crime is a crime!!!some are greater than others…but..in the end the definition is criminal!!but….because what one party did was only 500 dollars,its a second chance!!the other partys mistake was 1000 dollars he are she gets a felony,voteing rights taken away,cant have fire arm,cant get a decent job,cant further there degree because regardless they wont get hired no where with that felony!!cant travel out the states and ect….weither its felony are mistermenor you are still spending tax dollars on criminals and who nos where elese your tax dollars are going…i would spend my tax dolllars on someone to help better themselves at anytime,and the charity thing sounds like a wonderful idea i will do some research on that thanks….oh and just for the record…robbery is considerd a viloent crime..,so are drugs and alot of other things…and you say you should have the right to no if a person has been convited???lol no comment…but you probably should worry more bout some of the ones who have never done ANYTHING in there life wrong…that would make them perfect without flaws ,which means you probably just met GOD!!!!and if you by chance see him again get a picture for me,because i talk to him daily but havent had the plesure of meeting him in person yet!!

  13. inkslwc Says:

    I have never intentionally broken a law. Sure, I’ve accidentally sped every once in a while, but I stop when I notice, and I would take a ticket if given one and not dispute it.

    I just don’t see why it’s the government’s job to pay for people who have committed crimes.

    And I could care less if there was a difference in name between felonies and misdemeanors – as long as they’re punished in a way that fits the crime. I don’t think you should be able to get rid of misdemeanors either!

    Also, when have I ever argued that felons shouldn’t be able to vote? I’ve never said that the law as it stands is perfect. I think they should be able to vote (not in prison), but once they get out.

    I just don’t see why tax dollars should go toward that? If you want, give us a tax break, then the felons can expunge themselves (unfortunately).

  14. Jason Says:

    You all seriously have no idea the impact that should have…As a conficted felon myself I understand both sides of the story..As a business Major yes I understand i’d want to know if i’m hiring a theif if he’s dealing with cash on the other hand you have no idea how long it took me to get a simple min wage job..It took me 3 MONTHS! just to make 150.00 a week if i’m lucky on a good week.
    On the side of the government paying for it I don’t believe this is such a good idea if anything else they should just pass an admindment making it to where employers are unable to ask on the application at all if they have a felony..That at least would increase our chances of a job marginlly, however leave it up to the company on wheither or not to run the background check.

  15. inkslwc Says:

    Honestly, I could care less if businesses asked or not. If I ever run/own a business, I would do background checks on all employees. And I wouldn’t necessarily deny somebody because of a felony. But what asking that question does do, is see the honesty of the person. If they told me they weren’t convicted of any felonies, and then I found out that they had been, I’d deny them right then and there. In no way do I think that all felons are terrible people who should remain unemployed, I just think that companies should have the right to know who they are hiring, and what that person’s history has been.

    Just curious, what were you convicted of, if you would be comfortable sharing that.

  16. jti88le Says:

    At 16 i got kicked out of my house by a drunk father and a mean ol’ step mom. Needless to say i was pretty messed up from 16 to 23. I’m 30 now. Drug, tobacco and alcohol free. But i got in ALOT of trouble and from being POOR i got a record. I have seen the rich kids in my high school and through out life get off with a slap but now I however am a CRIMINAL. Why should i pay taxes if i have no rights? I started making very good money on a blessing from God and the taxes are killing me. If i am not considered a citizen then why am i paying the same as Mr perfect who has never done anything wrong? Or better yet whos mommy and daddy had the money opr the connections to get off. According to the application in Fl. i can NEVER RENT ANYWHERE IN FLORIDA. I can never get a Pell grant, join the military, own a gun, defend my family, vote, get a government job, leave this GREAT country or even STUDY OR WORK in a foreign country. But i have to pay taxes? HMMMMMMMMMMMM.

  17. inkslwc Says:

    You’re right – it is unfair. The rich kids should have the same punishments as you. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be able to vote. I’m just saying that nobody, rich or poor should be allowed to have their records expunged, and the treatment needs to be fair to all races, genders, and socio-economic statuses.

  18. felon in MI Says:

    I was convicted of four (4) felonies in one night! I was in an argument with an ex boyfriend and was convicted of four MDOP charges. Melicious destruction of property in excess of $400.(2) MDOP in excess of $1,000. (2) These felonies were because I threw his phone at his kitchen wall and it bounced back and hit an antique orchid planter that smashed and fell onto his pergo floor… I paid several thousands of dollars over the five year probation period. Subrogation fees to his homeowners insurance co. that sued me as a result of his bogus and embellished claim; to which I had to pay prior to being let off probation, Oversite probation fees at district and circuit levels, drug and alcohol testing fees, counseling fees, anger management classes, etc…I paid all of my fines, fees and expenses; I have completed all requirements of probation; I am off probation now; I am and have been clean and sober since 2001 as a result of these felonies but I violated probation by drinking once during my first 5 months of being on probation, and thus received a probation violation which made me a repeat offender. I cannot get a decent job in although I had a state insurance license and I am college educated! I have not received a penny of welfare or unemployment . I do not ask for it. I am grateful to vote now, which I do at each and every election. I am an American! I have a flag flying in my yard. I am a grand mother, I love God and teach my children and grand children about God. I am a law abiding citizen and never had even a traffic ticket prior to that horrible evening in 2001. And have only had one traffic ticket since that time. I file and pay taxes every year! I voulunteer regularily, I donateto the Goodfellows and work their holiday distrubution programs in Southfield. I donate my old clothes and household items that I no longer need. I participate in a 12 step program. I offer rides to those who do not have licenses. I maintain my home by myself so as to keep my community looking good and Guess what? I cannot find a job that pays over minimum wage….I have a disease of alcoholism I am not a criminal. Yet I have no rights to get a job that will allow me to pay even my menial bills. I am talking basic needs of shelter, food and clothing. I do not use credit cards! I shop second hand stores, I drive a 15 year old vehicle that I do have insurance on! I abide by the law and yet, I cannot afford to support myself with only one job. I am overqualified for the jobs that I do, but when I only work two jobs I am grateful for the sleep that I get. I am not rich nor do I consider myself poor…I only want a chance to live the American Dream and work a full days work for a fair wage that will afford me an opportunity to pay my bills, drive a dependable car, wear clothing that is not worn out or so out of date that I look like a reject from the 70’s (tehehe..) and buy birthday and Christmas presents for my grand children. Please don’t be so judgemental of “felons” We are not all killers, child abusers, embezzelers or car theives. Some of us only threw a phone during a heated argument…have you ever done something like that? Please don’t reach for the speck in my eye prior to removing the board in your own….YES, some felons do deserve a second chance! I cannot wait for the government to start assisting felons! Where can I volunteer to help get this into action? I do not qualify as I have four (4) felony convictions. Again, all from one night. So there is NO expungement for me…but if you want to continue to pay taxes that keeps felons in jail at a cost of over $30,000. each a year but you don’t want to help a felon get a “real paying job” with your tax dollars…Oh, did you know that your tax dollars are also buying Korans and prayer rugs for the POW’s in the war in the East? did you know that you tax dollars are buying methadone for drug addicts at clinics? Did you know that your tax dollars are providing food and medical benefits for illegal aliens? If you are going to complain about where your tax dollars go that is your choice…but for once look at the bigger picture….Rehabilitation as opposed to incarceration…more people making money means more people spending money…a healthier economy…a healthier nation. One Nation Under God that United we stand and divided we fall.

  19. felon in MI Says:

    I forgot to add. I do not think that the government should pay for expunging felony records through tax dollars….Just as I don’t like that my tax dollars pay for the war, the war on drugs, the illegal aliens shelter, food, medical and clothing…I just think that there should be ammended laws as to how a convicted felon can appeal to have certain felonies expunged and or suppressed from public view so that they can obtain gainful employment with an opportunity to become productive citizens contributing to a healthier economy and a healthier nation! Thanks for reading my point of view. No hope to have four expunged under current law, but still hopeful for a miracle!

  20. inkslwc Says:

    First, I’d like to thank you for being the first felon to actually come on here and say what you did. I commend you for that.

    Second, I agree with you about the tax dollars – I have said plenty o other times that tax money shouldn’t be going toward illegal aliens, etc…

    Third, would I hire you for a job? Probably if you were qualified, but I would also want the right to know that you did have an angry outburst that could be costly to my company and even dangerous to my other workers.

    Do I think that you’d have another outburst, no, but companies should have the right to know.

    Fourth, you made this statement, which I take issue with, “Yet I have no rights to get a job that will allow me to pay even my menial bills.” You do have the right to get a job, but companies have the right to not hire you. As I’ve said before, based on your story, I see no reason for you still not to be able to get a job, but companies should be able to know what you did.

    Again, I commend you for actually saying what felonies you were convicted of, and I wish you the best of luck in your life and finding a job.

    God bless!

  21. Tasha Says:

    Yeah you may say what you want about ex-offenders but remember everyones life is totally different.So tho shall not judge because in a split second the shoe could be on the other foot. May God bless all those who judge people and have mercy on your souls……..

  22. inkslwc Says:

    I’m not judging. I’m simply saying that employers should have the right to know. The whole “thou shalt not judge lest ye yourself be judged” phrase is taken out of context too much. When it comes to employers, you can judge all you want – that’s the whole point of hiring somebody.

  23. Tracy Says:

    I think that a felony should not hold people up from getting a job. I have a felony and have been looking for a job since November and I can not find one. My felony is for uttering and publishing. Someone wrote me a check, I cashed it, it was fake, but I did not know that it was fake. It sucks because the guy that wrote it to me got in no trouble. I wanted to work in the medical field and now there is no way that will ever happen.

  24. inkslwc Says:

    Tracy, you’re right. Having a felony should not automatically eliminate job opportunities, but employers need to have the opportunity to know the records of potential employees.

    And uttering and publishing would mean that you both wrote the check and cashed it. Uttering is presenting forged documents. Publishing is making them. The prosecutor would have had to prove that you knew it was a fake check, so how did he prove that, and why didn’t you appeal it?

  25. Tracy Says:

    I don’t know how he proved it. I do know that I had a public defender that didn’t give a crap about me or my case. He actually is not a lawyer anymore at all. I even gave them the name of the guy that wrote me the check and they did nothing to him. I was pretty trusting of people back then and was very naive. How are you supposed to know if a check is not real? My attorney had told me to take the plea bargin and I have kids and all I was concerned about was not going to prison or jail.

  26. inkslwc Says:

    What do you mean you don’t know how he proved it? Weren’t you there when he presented the case?

  27. Tracy Says:

    He didn’t have to present anything. My attorney told me to take a plea.

  28. inkslwc Says:

    OK. I had thought that you took a plea after the case had started – my mistake. I mean, your situation was a bad one where you had a defense attorney who clearly didn’t know what he was doing, but one bad experience in the system isn’t enough to erase the protection of records for felons. If anything, we need to relook at the public defender system. I really do feel sorry for you, but if you see now the mistake it was to take the plea, why didn’t you look into it more before?

  29. Tracy Says:

    Like I said I was very naive and I thought that the attorney was telling me to do the right thing. I know now that I should have gotten a different attorney.

  30. Uncle Sam Says:

    Uncle Sam is the biggest felon of them all! Oh lets forgive Sam! Fake Christians you should remember the lords prayer and stop casting stones. Mr Bush the real bright guy you elected has been arrested 3 times and can become the President of the USA. And a guy who has been arrested 1 time for one the same crimes that the super stupid has can not even get a job at the post office sweeping floors. Your right your tax dollars are better off paying for a war and killing or kids and building up Iraq. Guess what I see …..stupid people. This is a very good ideal the 2nd chance program …..If we are to give our Gov. a 2nd chance why not its people a 2nd chance.

  31. inkslwc Says:

    It’s not that I’m against giving people second chances, it’s that I don’t think the GOVERNMENT should fund it.

    Deciding not to hire a felon is not casting stones. You’re use of Biblical principles is a shame to Christianity – that principle is taken so out of context that it has become a way for people to say, “don’t ever punish anybody because nobody’s perfect,” and that’s not what it’s intended to be.

  32. Uncle Sam Says:

    In God we trust….that is the foundation this country and Gov. was built on a Biblical Principle. My question is …..who is paying for Uncle Sam crimes? Not our Government you and I…..We the people! Hey I have a ideal instead of building up Iraq and a host of other countries lets build up each other. Once again I say, if we the people can pay for Uncle Sam crimes we the people can can fund one a another a 2nd chance at life!

    Its a shame the GOVERNMENT expect we the people to think that it is…. God it Trust! No one said not to ever punish any one Im saying we must forgive one another and help one another and stand together.

    You with a Government that is with out Sin cast the 1st Stone! Whats is good for the SAM is good for the PEOPLE! What happen to together we stand! Right now as I see see it Americans is the victim of crimes commented by Uncle Sam. Should we continue to bail out Uncle Sam or say to Hell with our Hyprocrite Uncle Sam.

  33. inkslwc Says:

    Find me anywhere that I’ve defended the Iraq War on this blog – I haven’t.

    And the thing is, I’m all for forgiving people. The victims of the crimes committed SHOULD forgive the felons, but having the government expunge records on taxpayer money puts innocent businesses and citizens at risk.

    I would want the right to accurately check the background of anybody I would have to hire, and I wouldn’t want to hire somebody who had been convicted of embezlement. Would I forgive somebody for embezling from my company (if I had a company)? Absolutely. Would I hire him back? Absolutely not.

  34. Uncle Sam Says:

    My dear friend, If a person can not afford a expungement because he can not afford it ….due to the fact he can not find employment due to a mistake he made…. then tell me what should that person do then?

    Im saying if a person served his time and has payed his debt …that person should have an oppurtunity to get back to life! We are talking about Non Violent Felons that have only committed one crime.

    And if that person was able afford the expungement would the same risk your talking about still exsit? Absolutely Yes! It would nice if we could invest some money in people and not more prisons.

    After so many rejections ….something kicks in called survival and then you have a revolving door in our prisons systems. Yes we should help one another out to become productive citizens….

  35. inkslwc Says:

    Perhaps I didn’t make my thoughts clear (and that’s my fault) – I don’t think anybody should be able to get their records expunged – it’s unfair to employers. But on top of my thoughts on expungement as a whole, I ESPECIALLY don’t think the government should be doing it for people.

  36. Tarron Says:

    I got in trouble a while for selling drugs i am 21 now, yes it was the biggest mistake ever and now i will pay the price for the rest of my life. I cant even get financial aide for school now. But people want me to do something with my life !!! I cant afford school so there for i try to save money but books and all that stuff isnt chip. what is a 21 year old girl really supposed to do?

  37. inkslwc Says:

    Accept the consequences and try to move on. Show family and friends around you that you are trying to do something with your life, and see if anybody will help you.

  38. Uncle Sam Says:

    Hello Tarron, Its going to be hard, but keep your head up! All have Sin and all have broken some type of Law and some has never been convicted like your good Ole Uncle Sam and G. Bush. Check his record!

    Get a expungement if this is your only charge. You do not have to try and prove nothing to anyone. Its strange how some can judge when most of the ones that are judging should be on trial them selfs.

    There is not a person out there that has not ever made a mistake….some just greater than others. You can not live for everyone else nor should you seek approval from anyone else. Let your light shine and let them have the right to think what they want to think.

    Never give a Critic more time than you would a Friend!

    Best Wishes From:
    We the People

  39. Uncle Sam Says:

    Mr. Inkslwc you are contradicting your self ….you do not believe people should have a 2nd chance and you also believe they should have 2nd chance.

    My confused friend I will allow you 2nd chance to clear your thoughts up!

    This is what Im talking about people. If you tell the truth about things you do not have to remember a lie! It is my beleif that this person never believed in anyone having a 2nd chance. But lets give him one! Are you a hypocrite or a person who made a mistake?

    Inkslwc Says:
    June 6, 2008 at 3:53 PM
    It’s not that I’m against giving people second chances, it’s that I don’t think the GOVERNMENT should fund it.

    Deciding not to hire a felon is not casting stones. You’re use of Biblical principles is a shame to Christianity – that principle is taken so out of context that it has become a way for people to say, “don’t ever punish anybody because nobody’s perfect,” and that’s not what it’s intended to be.

    inkslwc Says:
    June 9, 2008 at 11:13 PM
    Perhaps I didn’t make my thoughts clear (and that’s my fault) – I don’t think anybody should be able to get their records expunged – it’s unfair to employers. But on top of my thoughts on expungement as a whole, I ESPECIALLY don’t think the government should be doing it for people.

    Best Regards

  40. Terry Says:

    ALL it takes is ONE wrong move to end up i a sittuation that can change your whole life forever…..inkslwc if the shoe was on your foot…you would be begging and pleadeing for a sec chance…im also pretty sure that there are things in your life RIGHT now that you wish badly someone would have given you a second chance to correct whatever it may be!!!and if given that chance you would accept it quick fast and in a hurry…..INCOURAGE CHANGE FOR THE BETTER,I DO………

  41. inkslwc Says:

    Uncle Sam, I never contradicted myself in those statements. You are equating a 2nd chance with an expungement, but my point was that private companies are the ones that should give those chances, not the government (through the process of expungement, and ESPECIALLY not by taxpayers expense).

    I absolutely disagree with people getting their records expunged. I encourage felons to plead their case to companies/people to show that they’re sorry / they’ve changed their life / it was a one time mistake/stupid decision, etc…

    The problem is, this makes the hiring process more subjective, and when you make it too subjective, you can fall victim to frivolous lawsuits, so many companies just make a stricter blanket policy.

    I hope that this cleared up the confusion.

  42. inkslwc Says:

    Terry, again, like I’ve said to Uncle Sam, I ENCOURAGE second chances, given by individuals and companies. But companies shouldn’t be forced to give people second chances due to the fact that they don’t know a person’s past.

    And yes, there are things that I wish people would give me a second chance on, but I know I don’t deserve it. Those people have forgiven me for what I’ve done, but may not trust me 100%, and I don’t hold that against them.

  43. Uncle Sam Says:

    Mr. Inkslwc
    The SECOND CHANCE for Ex-Offenders Act of 2007 (H.R. 623), titled “To permit EXPUNGEMENT of records of certain nonviolent criminal offenses” is a bill submitted to the United States House of Representatives to amend the federal criminal code to allow an individual to file a petition for expungement of a record of conviction for certain nonviolent criminal offenses.

    The goal of the legislation would be to reward non-violent felons for good behavior and a demonstrated desire and commitment to rehabilitating themselves by assisting them in re-establishing themselves as full members of their communities. Expunging criminal records would carry other benefits as well, removing the dramatically obstacles towards obtaining housing, education, and the restoration of voting rights.

    My friend Im equating expungement with 2nd chance for this reason! The expungement makes it a 2nd Chance!!

    The reporting source of who is a felon…. is the Government! Not private companies. Private companies can not tag you as a felon. Oh! and by the way Felons not only paid there Debt to Society but they are Taxpayers as well!

    If taxpayers can pay for Uncle Sams crimes and mistakes and give Uncle Sam another chance why not give …we the people a 2nd chance!

    Now I will give you a 3rd chance to explain yourself! And I forgive for not eqauting 2nd Chance with expungement.

  44. inkslwc Says:

    Well, I don’t equate 2nd chances with expungement, so what I said before wasn’t contradictory – I just wanted to reinforce that.

    2nd, the reporting source of who is a felon is in fact the government, you’re correct. I’ve never said otherwise.

    When you expunge a record, you force the company to give somebody a second chance by disabling them from knowing the person’s past criminal history. A company should have the right to make the choice to give them a second chance by seeing the person’s record and then choosing to hire them with full knowledge that they’re a felon. That’s what I mean when I say that people should be given second chances (some people, not everybody) – but it should be left up to the company/person doing the background check.

    Does this make sense?

  45. Uncle Sam Says:

    Tax breaks,Grants and all other types of perks ….we the people give to companies via Uncle Sam with Tax Payers Money!

    Whats good for Sam and Big Buisness is also good for …We the People!

  46. inkslwc Says:

    That has nothing to do with this.

  47. Uncle Sam Says:

    Tax breaks,Grants and all other types of perks ….we the people give to companies via Uncle Sam with Tax Payers Money!

    This is the reason why we should use tax payers money for a 2nd chance!!!

    Whats good for Sam and Big Buisness is also good for …We the People!

    Do you tell companys the mistakes you made in life when you fill out an application?

  48. inkslwc Says:

    Just because the government gives perks to companies that they shouldn’t give them doesn’t mean they should give rewards to undeserving people to. They should stop giving to the companies.

    I have no relevant mistakes when filling out an application, but I would be honest – I would write down any crimes I had committed.

  49. Uncle Sam Says:

    You can not become a Ex Felon with out paying your debt to society. By settling your debt with society is not a reward, What Ex Felon means is that All Dues are Paid and All Debts are Settled! It now becomes the Past!

    Even in x amount years you can clear up your credit….Why not your Life! When all Debts are paid that now makes you deserving!

  50. inkslwc Says:

    And you CAN clear up your life. If you have one felony on your record, and then get employed at a job for 25 years, and decide to move on to another job, you can put that 25-year job on your resumé, and that (to most companies) will mean a WHOLE lot more than that one felony. But the company still deserves to know what crimes you’ve committed in the past.

  51. Jaime Says:

    I am a nonviolent felon. There has been eight years since trouble has found me. I have three beatiful children and now, I’m a postive citizen in my city. I am totally honest about the mistakes that I have made. I got in with the wrong crowd and made so many mistakes. I do realize that a non felon would not understand the struggle of finding a job or persisantly being rejected for a mistake a thousand years ago. We all have broke the law just some got caught and some didn’t. There are many things that are involoved with this topic. Some people never knew a loving father, or heard one loving word from there mothers lips. These things make any person lost in the cold world. I firmly believe that it stems from how you were raised. Some people had loving homes and got the warmth needed to be healthy in soicety. How are the middle or high class to judge anyone. Not everyone makes all the right decisions.

  52. S kerschner Says:

    As a Felon i do understand both sides. I do feel that using tax payers money is not the best solution, however we should not suffer a lif long sentence. A judge imposed a sentence, i did everything ask of me and more. I have involed myself in charties and an advocate for children with special needs. When does the sentence stop if we are not given a chance to redeem oursleves. By continuing a sentence beyond its term will lead to a greater recidivism rate

  53. firedad13 Says:

    i was convicted of felony assult in 1997. I was in 11th grade i plead guilty
    I have been a fire fighter since 1999 I have worked with the sheriff dept. serving death notifications and counseling families after since 2001 i work full time for mental health Being convicted of this crime made me who i am today i was in jail with sex offenders drug dealers and wife and kid beaters people i hate and in jail i was no better then them and it made me think about my life 18 in jail and a convicted felon i have had my gun rights restored through the local gun board my son and daughter will know what i did i also lost a collage scholarship to u of tenn for baseball this was totally my fault i blame no one and make no exuses i here and read people say they were young had a bad childhood and so many more exuses and i kills me that they just dont own up to what they did THEY DID IT no one else so just to say i have a good life im a good dad and husband i have a good job ans am respected in my home town and they now my past this is because of my moral character not my past so in closing dont us your felony a an excuse for a crappy life many felons have good lifes because they dont use there felony as an excuse for there crappy life

  54. inkslwc Says:

    firedad13, GREAT story – this is exactly what I mean when I’m saying that you CAN turn your life around after being a felon. I commend you for actually owning up to what you did, and I wish you the very best!

  55. JUSTIN Says:


  56. inkslwc Says:

    If only perfect people could judge, we’d have no governments. You’re argument is ridiculous. You’re judging me for judging felons. Thus, according to you, you must be perfect or insane. Considering you’re not perfect (it would be to all “who” judge, not “that”), you must be insane. Should I get the committment papers, or will you get them yourself?

  57. Jack Says:

    Inkslwc, I honestly don’t think you have any clue as to what is considered a felony these days.

    Trespassing on a contruction site is a felony in Florida, adultery is felony in some states, Lewd and lascivious cohabitation a felony (that’s “living in sin” to you older folks) in some states.

    If you have two cars both of which you own in NY state and you remove parts from one to put on another.
    Unless you are a “licensed automobile dismantler” you have committed a felony.

    Not only is posssesion of a firearm by a convicted felon a “predicate felony” but also possession of body armor (you not only can’t defend yourself you can’t protect yourself from VIOLENT felons.

    You seem so concerned and so adamant about “background checks” but what you’re likely to force is people concealing their identities completely

    In other cases unscrupulous employers (yes they do exist, who do you think hires the illegal aliens? which is by the way a felony under the cushman act) taking advantage of non-violent felons by paying substandard wages (sometimes violating federal minmum wage laws) or making felons co-conspirators in tax evasion schemes by paying “under the table”

    Do you want single offense non-violent felons, to become honest hardworking citizens or is it more important that their past is disclosed time and again?

    Lord save us from the Martha Stewarts, the Oliver Norths, the Tim Allens of this world

  58. inkslwc Says:

    No, I do understand that those are felonies. The difference between yourself and myself is in how we think the law should work. You’re opinion (at least this is what I understood your opinion to be) is that the system is broken, so we need to deviate from the normality of the system.

    My opinion is to simply change the laws. Make those (and I’m inventing a new term here) “frivolous felonies” not felonies any more. I don’t remember if I’ve ever done a blog post on it, but my opinion about some of the crimes that are considered sex offenses is that they shouldn’t be sex offenses. I’ve been opposed to many statutory rape laws. If a 14- and a 17-year-old want to have sex, I don’t see why the government should outlaw that. 34- and 14-year-old, and I agree with the law.

    I understand that people may conceal their identities, but if all they’ve done is a non-violent felony (since you make it seem like it’s not a big deal), why is it a big deal to admit it?

    And those unscrupulous employers should be locked up too!

    And like I’ve said numerous times in the comments above, it’s not that I want their past revealed, but I want to give the opportunity for their past to be revealed. Background checks shouldn’t be mandatory – they should be optional.

  59. ProAmerican123 Says:

    So sad this nation is going to crap, now people are feeling sorry for the garbage of this nation that should not even be on the streets yet alone have their crimes erased. I am an executive, and I would be steamed to find out I hired a piece of trash because our government made his/her crimes invisible to me. I pay a lot of tax dollars to protect be from these beasts and it makes me sick to my stomach every time I hear some puke begging for another chance, once a criminal always a criminal they can never be trusted again. Just because they don’t receive another conviction does not mean they are not committing crimes, prison is the university of criminal behavior, they learn to get better at it. Keep these pukes off the streets and out of my company!!!

  60. ProAmerican123 Says:

    Criminal background checks should be mandatory, I want to know the folks I am doing business with are respectable human beings and not some piece of trash. I also make sure that I do a thorough criminal background check on every employee I hire as well as a drug test. I do reference checks on their former employers to make sure they did not lie about their backgrounds. It is imperative to be very thorough or you will end up with garbage working for you. Felons are anti-American because they have no respect for our laws or fellow human beings. Everyone has a choice, and if you make the wrong choices you have to pay for it. Everyone has temptations, and the difference between a criminal and a human being is that the human resists the temptations and always does the right thing. Criminals will always give into temptations and that is why they can never be trusted again, they need to stay in their cage.

  61. inkslwc Says:

    OK, first post I mostly agree with.

    Second post, you went a little far:

    1) If you mean checks should be mandatory as in a government policy, that’s the government overstepping it’s bounds in the opposite direction. If you mean in terms of a company policy, I wholeheartedly agree.

    2) Not ALL felons are anti-Americans. You can commit a crime and change, but it still doesn’t mean that you should be automatically hired.

    3) Not all criminals will always give in to temptations, but in my opinion, punishemnts should be harsher.

  62. ProAmerican123 Says:

    jti88le, I read your statement and it make me want to vomit. I was taken away from my mom at the age of four when she tried to kill me. I lived with an alcoholic uncle that beat the crap out of me everyday because he enjoyed it. I then got adopted by another uncle that suffered from ptsd because of Viet Nam and mentally and physically abused me until I was sixteen. After repeated threats that he was going to kill me and bury me in the back yard I left and put my self in a group home. I finished my education and went on to get my master’s degree in business administration. While people like you are feeling sorry for yourself and committing crimes, people like me did the right thing and are now paying for your criminal butt to be in jail or be supervised by parole or probation officers. Every penny you make should go back to the state for having to babysit you. Go cry to someone else, human beings are sick of hearing it.

  63. inkslwc Says:

    Gotta agree with you there. I’m tired of hearing excuses for crimes.

  64. onetimer Says:

    I worked at a local store in Michigan, I fell for the tempatation and stole baseball cards and some video games. I was caught and charged. I pled to a felony of attempted embezzlement. I was a young punk kid who didnt know any better and rue those actions every day. I have to face this world with the fact that I gave in and chose to take those items. I cannot explain how sorry I was for doing this, not getting caught but the fact I was weak and stole from my employer. I have changed 100% for the better, I know for a fact I would never give in to that temptation again, and I do deserve a second chance.

    I am ashamed that some people of our great country and state would call people beasts and should be caged. I made a mistake, and have paid for that mistake. I would love to have this off my record and be able to move on with my life, To teach my son how to hunt, Teach him gun safety like my father did for me and my brother. There are many people in this world who deserve a second chance once they prove they are capable of handling that oppurtunity. I am one of those people. I hope many others who made mistakes can be forgiven as well and move on in life without that dark cloud over thier lives.

  65. inkslwc Says:

    onetimer, I do agree with you about the guns. Instead of just of just flatly banning guns for all felons, gun bans should be subjective.

  66. Nick Says:

    First Michigan already has laws regarding this. Under Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL) 780.621(3) If a person is convicted of only one crime violent or non they can petition to have said crime expunged from there record and all rights restored to them. If you have two crimes on your record whether they are felonies or misdemeanors or one of each you are disqualified from ever having either expunged. As far as voting goes there is no law in Michigan that says a felon cannot vote. I was convicted at 17 for Felony possession of a Molotov cocktail, and at 18 for getting my girlfriend who was 1 month from 16 at the time pregnant. I am not proud of either they were both reckless and stupid mistakes and completely my fault. I took full responsibility for my crimes and did the time without complaint. I am now 27 with 5 children who have to struggle through their lives because of my mistakes. I digress though, as soon as I was released from jail the second time I was allowed to vote and have in every election since. And as far as owning a fire arm goes. Under MCL 750.224f any person who has been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor domestic violence can own a fire arm again if 3 yrs have passed and they meet the following requirements they have served their time, finished probation or parole and paid all fines and costs. The exception to this is certain drug crimes, gun crimes and explosives crimes, these felons must wait 5 years and meet all the above requirements. If you don’t believe me then visit Michigan.gov and pop the MCL number into their legislation search they have. That said, as a felon I think that everyone should be given a second chance if they have proven that they are no longer a danger to society or a criminal. I do not think however that someone who has already committed a felony with a gun or an extremely violent offense should EVER be allowed to own a gun. I am also sick of people saying that once you serve your time all is forgiven, it just isn’t true. I am strictly educating my children about the legal system and to not be on the wrong side of it as it not only hurts you but your wife/husband and your children as well. I am glad that I can own a gun for hunting or protecting my family but do I want Lil Bo Bo the local drug dealer to have one cuz he hasn’t been caught in 5 yrs? HELL NO, there has to be a better way to weed out those types. Should tax dollars go to help a criminal gain expungement? No, if you want your record expunged then you put in the time filing the paperwork and you pay the bill for the hearing. It is the same principal I use when my children want something from the store, I make them earn the money to buy it because it means more to them that way.

  67. Nick Says:

    people like me did the right thing and are now paying for your criminal butt to be in jail or be supervised by parole or probation officers.

    This statement isn’t entirely true, If a criminal goes to prison then yes our tax dollars pay for them. However when it comes to county jail they themselves are required to pay for that before being released from probation. Furthermore they also must pay supervision fees for their time on probation or parole and monitoring fees if on tether. So you see unless they go to prison our tax dollars really pay nothing, they themselves are required to pay and keep a job. In Midland where I was convicted you are required to pay a minimum amount on all fees and costs every pay day. Also the Midland County Jail gives you 30 days after release to pay your confinement costs to them for however many days you were in jail. These costs were around 20 dollars per day back in 2000 and I was required to pay 1700 dollars in 30 days when I couldn’t they doubled the amount owed. Hey I guess they need money some how, I am sure they hope that you will break the law to pay them so they can lock you up longer and charge you more. As an adult I believe in the law and I believe that 99 percent of rules and regulations are good and just. It is just a damn shame that the legal system and corrections have been perverted into some kind of money making, residual income scheme for the government.

  68. inkslwc Says:

    I will note 2 things:

    Personally, I think statutory rape laws are too strict, your case being an example.

    Second, you bring up a good point between jail and prison (which is one many forget). Jail is where you go when you’re arrested. Prison is where you go when you’re convicted.

  69. Liketheidea Says:

    There is never a short supply of self righteous folks commenting on pages like these. Lets see what you all have to say about my example.

    Years ago I had some marijuana plants growing in a lizard cage. They were what I believed to be a clever decoration and were not meant for cultivation. When the police were called to my house because of a noise complaint, they saw the plants and I was arrested. The Oakland County Prosecutors office decided I must be a major criminal, and charged me with manufacturing and distribution…….a felony.

    I was fired from my job and had to collect unemployment for 26 weeks. Despite a master’s degree and being clean since that day, I cannot find adequate employment.

    Do you naysayers believe I am undeserving of another chance?

    Taxes already pay for welfare and other forms of public assistance. Those felons who can’t find jobs end up living off of those services. $400 once is a hell of a lot cheaper for taxpayers than $400 a week.

  70. inkslwc Says:

    First, how did you accidentally get marijuana plants?

    Second, I agree that you shouldn’t have been charged with distribution unless they had proof that you were distributing it (and by how you described the event, it sounds like they didn’t).

  71. Mike Says:

    You know I believe that there is a lot of hurt people by felonious people. This being their reason for being judgmental. They are afraid of the stigma of the word “FELON”. I believe that there shoud be different measure or types of felonies. The are labled as non-violent, violent etc… But, when it come to the job market a felony is a felony. No call back for a second interview or anything. Not once that background check has been done. Some felonies that are say first time and non-violent should be expunged immediately after the sentence has been served then a person can become an upstanding, responsible, productive citizen again. I believe, that in most cases these individuals were probably this type of person before that made the mistake. There are some that are just destine to be on the opposing side of the law. They are the repeat offenders. But when you are labelled a felon you are just that, a felon. No matter what the crime or sentence or on what count. In our society a felon is a felon. Circumstances don’t matter. It doesn’t matter that you have been denied grace on you home or auto loan. Or that you child is ill and needs a transplant, or you just need that little be extra to make it month to month. And you have never been in any trouble before or it has been years since you last time of a non-offensive or non-violent incident. My wife and I have been thrown into this arena and it was a drug charge. (first-time). I was able to keep my job, fortunately. She on the other hand hasn’t been able to find gainful employement. Now our home is soon to go into foreclosure. I just believe there should be a better way of tagging people. You can tell what a person is about and what they are capable of before ending their lives with the label of FELON. This is surely a life ending label. The way it stands a person has a hard time staying out of the judicial system. Michigan’s Mayor, even he will have a hard time living that felony down. Maybe not due to his status. I don’t know. I saw this website and just wanted to vent. Thank you.

  72. inkslwc Says:

    You say that first time non violent felonies should be automatically expunged. Why not go around pursuading companies to hire workers even if they have these felonies. If you say it’s no big deal, then why are companies hesitant to hire felons?

  73. Mike Says:

    You know I don’t think that it would be necessary or even possible to persuade business owner to hire felons. Be it first time, non-violent or not. Just like some of the people who are commenting here today. They have been brain washed and beaten down, run over and put in a position to put a barrier between what they believe to be good and evil. Within the judicial system, where is the evidence of anyone being reformed or rehabilitated ? If a person goes to jail for a felony crime and comes out with a mind to do well. Not get back into the life of crime. Seek employment and live a clean crime free life. But can’t find a decent paying job. The are led by instinct back to the life that led them into the judicial system in the first place. In the world of reality that is call survival. Your painted into a corner so to speak. How can someone think that if there was a good paying position someplace that they would rather do crime and wind up in jail? Come on, don’t be unrealistic. Let’s stay humane. It’s a fact if we didn’t have criminals there would be no need for the judicial system. If there were jobs available there would be no need for crime. With a mentality of keeping people limited to what they can do as opposed to letting them do what they are capable of doing we are a lost society and doomed to having this reoccurence of criminal activity. There has to be a way out of this judicial mary-go-round for those who want to get off of the ride.

  74. inkslwc Says:

    “If there were jobs available there would be no need for crime.” So you’re telling me that Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick committed his crimes because jobs weren’t available?

    “There has to be a way out of this judicial mary-go-round [sic] for those who want to get off the ride.” DON’T GET ON THE RIDE!!!!!

    There’s no judicial merry-go-round. Just because you commit a crime and can’t get work doesn’t mean that you have to go commit another crime. Go to a local church or other support group and try to find a job.

    Here’s the thing, since trials in America are public, the results of those trials are public too. Businesses have a right to not hire somebody based on a past felony.

    Why don’t you go out and start a small business and only employ felons? Build a good business and show this model to other businesses. That’s the way to change what goes on now, not go around and prohibit businesses from making decisions that they have a right to make.

  75. Mike Says:

    You have valid remarks and you are also right that a person has a choice whether or not to commit the crime in the first place. But, you telling me that after a person does this wrong thing whatever it may be. Now, we aren’t saying they have committed murder of put someones life in harms way. That they don’t deserve a second chance. All I am saying is that if you put a mark on someone’s forhead that they are a felon, (felon) is what we are speaking about here. This could be a really good person that just want to start over and get it right. Your saying that this person is doomed for the rest of there life to live below the normal standard of life. God doesn’t even do that, what give you or anyone else for that matter the right to judge a person and condemn them to that type of life. If that be the case then you wouldn’t make it into heaven for that thing you did when you were younger. I am sure you have done something that maybe you weren’t cought for and you havn’t done it again for fear of being cought? But, you will have to answer to God for it. “Let’s no judge less ye be judged”.

  76. Mike Says:

    And another thing. If a person comes to your business, it sounds like you may even be a business owner. If a person applies to you company who has done some felonious crimes and has never been caught. Has good diction, clean shaven, good resume. You hire that person. Then the person is finally caught. Meanwhile, this person who already has been to jail for a lesser crime but it is labelled a felony with the same or better credentials who just wants to regain self worth, or self respect in a society that has been empowered with the right that not only due to color, religion, or any other reason they don’t have to hire them. It bad enough that in the state of Michigan you can be fired for any reason at all just because you unliked. But now you can’t even be hired. Not like you have the job and then commit the crime, but you can’t even be hired. Don’t even submit you resume. Not to assess the individual personally. Your prejudging this person. It could be your child or someone that you love. I bet if it were you would give them a chance. You would trust them not to do any criminal acts while in you employ. CHANCE, that’s all it is. Hey if they mess up again well that is the blowing of that chance. There is alway another who wants the job anyway.

  77. Nick Says:

    Another point I would like to make is that a business is actually prohibited in Michigan from choosing not to hire or firing someone because of a criminal record. It is considered discrimination just like if you were a woman or black and they chose to not hire for either reason. That being said the only way by law they are allowed to ask the question on an app is if they put the standard “a felony will not necessarily bar you from employment” line with the question. The problem is that YOU as the felon have to prove that this is their reason for not hiring you and without access to their personnel records you have no way of knowing this and no one with access to these records is going to investigate for you because it is very difficult almost impossible to prove. As far as good jobs go sometimes people will listen to your situation and hire you but you also have to see it from their point of view, 80 % of felons are repeat offenders and as such pose a significant danger to their customers and employees. I know not all felons are violent but all humans have the capacity for violence if the right buttons are pushed. That being said let’s look at what would happen if a felon went off and assaulted an employee and his friend who happened to be a customer at the time of the assault. The felon would go to jail for a maximum 90 days in Michigan if he didn’t do great bodily harm less than murder that is a whole other charge that I won’t get into. So he goes to jail for probably less than 30 days considering overcrowding and plea agreements. The business on the other hand can and will get sued by both parties for all doctors bills and let’s not even get into the punitive damages which tend to be on the outrageous side. So the owner is sued and loses his business and if it is a bar probably his liquor license as well, and all the felon gets is less than 30 days in jail and maybe 6 months of probation. He won’t be sued because in court you have to pick one or the other, do you wanna sue the business that makes money or the minimum wage employee of the business who has none. That is a tough decision but I bet anyone would go with the business. The reason that the business can be sued at all is because by hiring a felon the business did not take the proper steps to insure the safety of its employees and customers and therefore it is negligent. These cases have been won in the past and will continue to be won in the future. So you can clearly see that a business is taking a great risk in hiring anyone with a record. And yes again I know that not all felons are violent and not all will do wrong again but you have to understand it is easier and more cost affective for a business to just exclude all felons rather than trying to gauge which ones may or may not repeat offend. The same thing can be said about Criminal Sexual Conduct laws, it is easier for the govt. to blanket everyone as a sex offender than for them to separate the ones who made a mistake and will never do it again and the ones who are true predators. It makes me wonder if they did separate them and one of the “non perverts” ended up molesting a child could that child’s parents sue the state for failing to protect there child from a predator. On a more personal note, as a sex offender myself “non pervert” though I am glad that you sympathize with people who are offenders because of statutory laws I would have to disagree with you Inkslwc. I don’t think that statutory laws are strict enough, when I was 18 and arrested for it I was so angry and it was b.s. because she was only a month from being 16 there is no difference in the ability to make decisions between a girl who is one month from 16 and one who is 16 and a half. Neither of them can make the decision to have sex this is made obvious by the insane number of teenage mothers in America today. If they were old enough and mature enough to make the decision then they would at least decide to use protection and not get pregnant. They would also be mature enough to talk to their parents about it instead of feeling embarrassed whenever the subject is brought up. Do I think that I should have to register? No I don’t, I was with this girl for five years and we have three children together. Did I break the law, absolutely I did and though I will never break the law again I try to walk in other peoples shoes whenever I make a decision about something. A lot of felons say that the general public should not be selfish and should walk in there shoes before they judge them or don’t hire them. Why don’t these same felons walk a mile in the general public’s shoes instead of thinking only about themselves and they will see that even though is sucks people have a reason for not wanting to give felons a second chance. Furthermore all first time felons are given a second chance, they have five years to keep out of trouble and then they can apply for expungement. They may have to pay some money and do a little work to get it but it should be worth the effort. If they are not willing to do it then they obviously don’t mind the label that much.

  78. Dave Says:

    Isn’t it ironic it’s the Republicans who are the ones who KILLED our state???? Your selfish acts have ruined Michigan – so in regards to you – GO FUCK YOURSELF.

    Felons are entitled to a second chance – they suffered in prison for their time and should be given a chance – especially the non-violent ones.
    Most felons do walk a mile in their shoes – maybe the public needs to back off them so they could get a job for a change?

  79. inkslwc Says:

    The Republicans. So you mean the Republican Governor Jennifer Granholm? Or the Republican-led House of Representatives? What Republicans killed the state?

    You’re right, felons are entitled to a second chance. I’ve never said they shouldn’t be. I just don’t think that the government should FORCE companies to give second chances by hiding criminal records.

  80. Nick Says:

    I agree that felons should get a second chance Dave, and I have walked a mile in their shoes I was convicted of Felony possession of a Molotov cocktail when I was 17 and charged as an adult. I just find it sad that we cannot have an ongoing adult discussion on this topic without you cussing at someone. I bet that company that didn’t hire you is sorry they didn’t, you have such a good attitude and glowing personality I don’t understand why they wouldn’t hire you on the spot. Oh and by the way Democrats run this state not Republicans. I would rather have a hard nose Republican state than a touchy feely we should all hug and hold hands let’s spend a couple million to find out why deer cross the road Democrat one any day.

  81. Nick Says:

    And one more thing Dave, your beloved Democrats are not hard enough on the real hardened criminals. This became evident to me when a Democrat judge gave me 3 to 15 years for having gasoline in a pop bottle on a plea deal and the next case was a man who pled guilty to molesting his granddaughter for 7 years and he got 6 months in jail and 60 days probation While I was sitting in prison and then busting my hump at boot camp he was out on the street molesting again, way to go Democrats. Let me ask you would you rather have all the criminals have a hard time or just the non violent ones while the real bad guys get a free pass?

  82. Uncle Sam Says:

    Hey ProAmerican123 you need some help! Some body give this dude a hug! Instead of being on this blog you should be bloging a nut cracker or something.

    Some body give this guy a # to a shrink for him and his family.

  83. Uncle Sam Says:

    In reply to this bright Guy!

    firedad13 Says:

    July 9, 2008 at 10:22 AM
    i was convicted of felony assult in 1997. I was in 11th grade i plead guilty.

    Uncle Sam says:
    You were a youth not an adult einstien. Thats why you are able to be a firedad and a fake cop! Dam public education! The year you missed the 11th grade really set you back.

    Hello, Inkslwc!

  84. inkslwc Says:

    Uncle Sam, firedad13 said he was 18 in 11th grade, so no, he wasn’t a youth, he was an adult.

  85. Uncle Sam Says:

    He was convicted in 11th grade! I hope he was not 18 in the 11th grade if so this is a shame. We should not have people like this on the PD or the Fire Dept. and dam sure not working with the mentally challege.

    Another up and comming Bush!

  86. inkslwc Says:

    So, what if the mother decided to wait 1 year before sending him to kindergaten? A LOT of people do this – it’s perfectly normal. In fact, I have a relative who graduated at age 19 (along with like half my class). 18-year-olds in 11th grade, although not “normal” is not uncommon.

    Or, he could’ve just missed the deadline to be in 12th grade. Don’t attack him based on his age – that’s completely irrelevant.

  87. Uncle Sam Says:

    Do you really beleive this bullshit this guy has told you? If so ….I gave you more credit than you deserve! Read that guys comment again and tell me you really believe that guy!!!

    I have bridge for sell.

  88. inkslwc Says:

    What in his story is unbelievable? The fact that he got back on his feet after committing the crime?

  89. Uncle Sam Says:

    He is a policemen, firefighter and some type of counselor all in about 3 years after getting out prison!

    Guess what if you are a felon you can not become a cop! That was your 1st Hint! I expect a response like this from the Bushman.

  90. inkslwc Says:

    Again, you’re not reading. He said he’s a firefighter and works WITH, not “for” the police department.

    There are lots of fireman who work with police departments, or even volunteers who work with them.

  91. Uncle Sam Says:

    Again I do not beleive the guy! A firemen is a job were they do a back ground check! And you are telling me that a guy that was convicted of felony assult is now counseling familys…..Please!

    Again, you’re not reading. This is a case of the blind leading the blind!

    Hey that bridge is still for sale!

    I do agree with one thing and that is everyone should have a right to get back on there feet after making a mistake!

  92. inkslwc Says:

    But there are some programs where rehabilitation back into society is a heavy part of the criminal pocess.

    What better a counselor than somebody who’s gone through rough times?

  93. Uncle Sam Says:

    But not enough programs. A past mistake does not tell you who I am today! Nor should anyone look at my past and judge me on something that was in the past.

    If we judge the past Uncle Sam should have been shoot along time ago!

  94. Liketheidea Says:


    I never claimed that I got the plants by mistake. I knew they were in there, but it wasn’t a grow operation like the prosecutors office led the court to believe. As for the distributing charge…..distributing and manufacturing are a hand in hand charge. You can’t get charged for manufacturing without the distributing charge being tagged on. Even if you were only “manufacturing” three plants that were being used as a decoration for an exotic pet.

  95. inkslwc Says:

    OK, well then I’m beginning to feel less sorry for you. No offense, but that was incredibly stupid of you – you had marijuana, and when you have marijuana, it’s normally OK to assume that it’s not there for decoration.

  96. Liketheidea Says:

    Well, possession of marijuana isn’t a felony. It shouldn’t be a crime at all, but we’ll save that conversation for another day. However, I was charged with a felony for possessing exactly 0 grams of smokeable substance.

    I don’t expect anyone to feel sorry for me. To automatically disqualify me for employment because I am a convicted felon is ignorant though. That is exactly what happens as soon as I check that box. If Mr. Ficano’s plan can give me an opportunitty to put my expensive education to use, then I am all for it.

    By the way, I do qualify for the No Worker Left Behind program. Thanks to that, I am furthering my education on the taxpayer’s dime. My current master’s degree is not in a field that’s in high demand in Metro Detroit. So, I get to pursue a degree that is. The state pays for my tuition, books, and even helps keep my automobile on the road. When you see the big picture, Ficano’s plan actually keeps money in the taxpayer’s pockets.

  97. inkslwc Says:

    Well, I agree that marijuana shouldn’t be a felony, but I have a rule that laws on the books should be enforced until they’re taken off. Apparenlty not enough peopl wanted it off, because the full lift of the marijuana ban didn’t make it onto the ballot (but the medicinal marijuana one did).

  98. Liketheidea Says:

    It’s also against the law to discriminate against someone because of their arrest record, but no one is enforcing that.

    There are some other laws still on the books in Michigan that are ridiculous. I hope these are being enforced as well. For example: Cars can’t be sold on Sundays in Michigan. Married women cannot cut their hair without their husband’s permission. It is unlawful to willfully destroy your old radio. It makes you wonder why they would ever come up with such rules.

    Yet marijuana remains illegal. Widely because of the lies we are told about how dangerous it is. These lies create an even bigger problem. Once kids try marijuana and realize it is nowhere near as bad as they have been lead to believe, they are likely to think the same is true about dangerous substances. “Heroin probably isn’t that bad…..remember what they said about pot?” So they try it, and are potentially hooked after that one try.

    The media and the politicians will say whatever they can to sway the masses in their direction. Anslinger and the media are who first made Americans believe marijuana was so bad in the first place. Truth has no bearing at all. You can bet your ass that if there was a giant corporate machine behind the marijuana industry there would be joints for sale at every gas station.

    The government should be taking on dangerous legal drugs like oxycodone. However, the corporate machine behind that is ensuring the government gets their take.

  99. Greg, Ohio Expungement Law Says:

    In answer to the very first post, YES, in Ohio, if you are a first time offender, you may be eligible for an expungement if you are a nonviolent offender. Many of these criminal offenders never served any jail time and just made one bad decision in their lives. These individuals are generally educated, middle class individuals who need to get their records sealed for employment opportunities. For those of you who are disgusted for being middle class workers who pay taxes and never made ONE mistake in life, imagine if you did make just one mistake, lost your job, and suddenly had no way to pay your bills, provide for your family, or make ends meat. Perhaps expunging a nonviolent offense would not seem like a bad idea then.


  100. d_leapheart Says:

    Whoever this inkslwc is must be a hypocritical (klansman). No matter what type of proof is on the surface this character still believes in unfair ways. Im a 2 timed felon. I caught my first felony when i was 16. I also fell victim to uttering and publishing. I painted a home for an subcontractor he gave me an check when i finished the job i took it to my bank. Not only did the bank let me cash it, they never told me it was bogus. Here I am this young black man never been in trouble a day in my life walks in to bank 1 in madison heights michigan with this check i didnt know was bad they knew but still gave me money. Then next thing i know i have warrants coming to my house from the police. Since i knew i did nothing wrong i went to the police and you know what. I got arrested. Eventhough i told the police who and where i got the check from they still didnt believe me. Now here i am facing a 7 to 14 year max federal charge for someone misleading me. They ignored the guy who wrote me the check and stuck it on me. See what must understand is that everyone is not rich or lives off there grandfathers, or family money. You probably live in a big house somewhere nice and have things others cant afford (like a lawyer). I had a public defender (for those who dont understand what that is) that is a lawyer who works for the county thats trying to prosecute you. That means they wont go threw the motions a paid attorney would. So just because i presented the check in the first place i got charged. I went threw 2 different public defenders and they told me and my parents there was nothing i could plea to other than that. So instead of me going to federal prison i spent 7 months in oakland county jail then i had to go to SAI bootcamp for 6 months and if i didnt finish i wouldve went to prison for 12 years because you do if not all 80% of your time in the fed joint. So tell me i didnt get f@#ked by the system because I couldnt afford a lawyer.
    that was in 2001 i stayed out of trouble for 4 years trying my best looking for jobs any and everywhere my feet or bus could take me. There is a area on job applications that ask if you are a felon. I tell the truth and i explain the circumstances but what do you think happens. Even at Mcdonalds they hire everyone even people who cant really perform certain duties like handicapped citizens. Im not harsh or mean but i can perfom any job better than a handicapped person period. Come on now what qualifications do you really have to have to sweep floors and flip burgers.
    Then in 2005 I got off probation early for paying my fines and never violating once in all those years. I went to the hospital and found a wallet on the ground. The police asked me did i find anything at first i said no. Then I gave everything to the man because i looked in the wallet and his id was in it. They guy just so happened to walk past me so I gave it to him. He looked in it and seen i did not take anything, the police saw me give it to him and thats when the bulls@#t happened. The guy didnt want me to go to jail but the southfield police officer was being a d$#k and took me to jail for saying i didnt have it when he asked me. Next thing i know im getting charged with larceny in building another felony. And guess what the same thing happened i got F23ked again. here it is in 2008-2009 and ive been unemployed for the past 7 years. You tell me why

  101. inkslwc Says:

    First, I’m not the racist. You are. You’re calling me a klansman and saying I have views that are unfair toward African Americans just because I don’t agree with you. You’re assuming that I’m some rich kid. My family makes under $100,000 a year. I live in a simple bungalow home.

    As for your case, the prosecutor has to prove that you knew that the check was fake. How would he have done that? This is basic information that you can find on the internet just looking at basic laws – so you never should have plead guilty / no contest (you said plea so I’m not sure which you plead).

    As for the second, case, you legally can’t be charged with felony larceny under Michigan Compiled Laws. See Chapter 750, Act 328 of 1931, Section 750.356 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(t4w1u2rjiml05w55z4zl5sut))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-356&highlight=Larceny).

    Plus, if the man isn’t pressing charges, I don’t see how the police officer can. So it looks like you’ve got a pretty open and shut case here.

    But don’t go around calling me a racist – that’s wrong.

  102. Labeled Violent Felon Says:

    Wow, it floors me that here in the land of America one could be so judgemental. Did it ever occur to any of you what makes someone a felon? violent or not? How about being raised around it, all your relatives have been to prison, your dad decides your his new punching bag until the day he pulls the trigger and takes his own life oh and the system that was suppossed to save you out that bad situation put you in foster home after foster home of bad bad parents only in it for the pay check so life sucks and you hang out with the wrong crowd and you make a mistake at the young age of 19 convicted of assault with a felony firearm, no one was hurt intent was out of fear of those you were around and you lose 10 years of your life and your 2 kids life so prison changes you, your more respectful, your grateful for the things you once took for granted, your changed, you feel your ready to start your life over give back to the community maybe even get involved in a program to help other young boys and men not make the same choices you made, but wait you can’t even get a job because the crime you committed a decade ago is haunting you didnt you already pay your dues by spending 10 years of your life in prison? Now I don’t believe that a taxpayer should have to pay to expunge our records that should be up to us to foot the bill, that is if we could get a decent paying job to do so. I want to raise my kids, provide for them, help my family out that helped me out, be a good person and leave an imprint of the youth of a better way of life. You wouldn’t know that because i can’t even get the interview, but i will keep trying and maybe someday we will cross paths and you will see me for who I am not the label you put on me.

  103. inkslwc Says:

    And I think that you should be able to go out and get a job, but companies have the right to know your background.

    And although your past is unfortunate, it was still you who decided to commit the crime.

  104. ProAmerican123 Says:

    It is so typical of criminals to make excuses for their actions and not take responsibility. “I didn’t know any better, I was a young punk, I grew up around it” All pathetic excuses for your criminal behavior. All of us were young once and most of us were exposed to violence or criminal acts. It it the criminal mind that takes in this information and turns it into criminal acts. I was abused, I was raised around all kinds of criminal acts, but I made the choice to be a respective and responsible human being that makes no excuse. I work hard to keep all of you criminals off my streets.

  105. ProAmerican123 Says:

    Happy to say that in my state we have the right to reject criminals from our job application data base. The minute you enter your social security number an automatic background check is performed and if you have a felony record your application is rejected. God Bless America!!

  106. ProAmerican123 Says:

    Very good inkslwc, I agree with what you are saying. Criminals choose to commit crimes and destroy all trust humans may have had in them. They should have thought about all of the consequences of their criminal acts before committing them. A criminal is never sorry until they are caught for their crime, then they want everyone to feel sorry for them and give them another chance. How many times do they expect to be forgiven? Once you commit a crime you can not be trusted ever again, I don’t care what you criminals think. I own a loan company, do you think for one second I would let some puke piece of shit work for me and have access to my money? I don’t think so.

  107. inkslwc Says:

    ProAmerican, it’s not that they can never be trusted again. I think some people can be trusted again, but I want that judgment to be left up to the company owners, so that people like yourself don’t have to take that risk if you don’t want to.

  108. ProAmerican123 Says:

    inkslwc, I agree that business owners have the right to know the background of those working under them. It is not ethical to hide the fact that a criminal is working for you. Business owners have a lot to loose, and a lot on their plates. It is not easy staying afloat, and the last thing in the world we need is a criminal taking everything we worked so hard for. I did not bust my butt to make it just so some loser can take it all.

  109. mom in mich Says:

    I understand that what i did is wrong,and i wish i could go back and change the past.I was convicted of embezzlement.I pled down from a felony to a misdemenor, Im a single mom of 4 i worked at a job for 10.00 per hour, brought home under 500.00 every 2 weeks,my electric was getting shut off, no food in the house. I tryed to get help from the state and other agency’s, i was told sorry you dont quaify for any help.my husband killed himself and left us with alot of bills that i could not pay by myself. I never denied to my employer or the courts what i did. my employer even helped me in court.the gov. will help aliens but not americans. i was lucky enough to get a job, the application asked if i was convicted of a felony, i answered no. well after 4 1/2 hours on the job i was fired because of the background check. even though i was not convicted of a felony, i was charged with one. the application did not ask that question, but i was fired because of it. i have tryed to get a job, but because of my mistake i cant get one.now i can get food stamps. sometime people commit felonys because they have no choice or feel they have no choice.and by the way i do put down i was convicted of embezzelment a misdemenor. I dont understand why i cant get a job stocking shelves or answering a phone, the job has no money involved in it. and i will try in 4 years to get it expunged. this is the only time i have ever gotten into trouble. If first time affenders cant get good jobs the chance they will repeat is greater think about that.hard time make good people do stupid things to survive.

  110. inkslwc Says:

    mom, “sometime people commit felonys because they have no choice or feel they have no choice”? No, you always have a choice.

    And what happened to your job with the employer that helped you in court?

  111. BlackToothONeil Says:

    In 1998 picked up my college roommate shortly after he had committed a robbery. I knew immediately after he got in my truck what he had done, but I did not report him. After I was charged with seven different felonies related to this one crime, I was convicted of armed robbery. The game is to charge you with as many felonies as possible so you plea to one or two, especially if you have an appointed defender. I was a poor working college student and my parents just get by, so no expensive legal team for me. My public defender plays golf with the prosecutor. I took the plea. I am still very angry at the system, and the obvious unfairness of the whole thing. I was 30 credits shy of a bachelors in marketing when I started the first of my 24 months in prison. I never bothered finishing the degree since no one would hire me for any professional business position. I think the entire legal system is a mess controlled by morons, rich morons. For all the felons on here, quit crying, they’ve been screwing you over ever since you were born poor. By “they” I mean greedy, rich, republican types. You know the ones who own businesses and pay employees less and less year in and year out. Twenty years ago a 7-10% profit was acceptable to business owners, now they aren’t happy unless its 25-30%. Who made up the difference? The employees and their families that’s who. It’s quite obvious if you look at everything from oil companies to grocery stores the rich want more and the poor have no choice but to pay. So what’s my solution? I don’t have one. Best thing I can suggest is find a way to make money without making someone else rich. Do all you can to slow the obvious transfer of wealth from the many to the few. I have started my own business and my wife luckily has a decent job. We still have weeks where we need to feed our family of four on $30.00, we make it work. So suck it up and keep fighting, nothing is going to change, so just hate the rich and allow that hatred to drive your daily activities. Don’t be scared, it’s okay to hate the greedy and rich they deserve it.

    Stay pissed!!!

    ps. Buy American and make the people rich who at least use American labor. Anyone know where I can get an American made TV??

  112. inkslwc Says:

    BlackToothONeil, why on earth did you take the plea? If you didn’t commit the robbery, and just aided a fugitive, they weren’t going to be able to get a guilty conviction on the robbery charge. No jury is that dumb. But you did aide a criminal, so for that, you should’ve been charged.

  113. BlackToothONeil Says:

    I was charged with Bank Robbery, Armed Robbery, Conspiracy to Commit Armed Robbery, Conspiracy to Commit Bank Robbery, Aiding and Abetting, Receiving stolen property over 1000.00, and use of a Firearm in the commission of a crime (although the gun he used was fake, I guess it doesn’t matter). Any one of these carries a penalty equal to or more than the 24 months I did. The only deal I was offered was they would drop all charges except the armed robbery and give me a 12-24 month minimum. The prosecutor offered the minimum to be 12-24 months which my public defender assured me would most likely be the 12 months and the prosecutor would not oppose that. Well he did oppose that at my sentencing, surprise, surprise. Had I not taken the plea I would have to go to trial on all of the charges. Of course the trial would have been fought by the wonderful public defender, or someone else of equal mediocrity, were I to fire the current idiot. To big a risk for me to fight, especially knowing the prosecutor, sheriff, judge, etc., would try to give me as much time as they could were I not to take the plea. They’re not afraid to let you know their intentions if you don’t do what they want. I truly believe that were I to have a paid trial attorney to negotiate I would have been offered a better deal, but that was not an option. Don’t take the plea do 5-10. What would you have done?

    That aside, the best thing I can say is I learned if you lie with dogs you end up with fleas. I am extremely suspicious of everyone outside my immediate family and I watch my back like a jew in Nazi Germany. I now have only two friends outside of my family and I keep them at arms length. Most people would sell out their own mother to avoid jail. Doesn’t leave me much room to trust. I am happy with just my wife and two beautiful children around me, everyone else can stay away.

    I am sure psychologically I am not living the healthiest of lives but I do feel safer than any other time in my life with the walls of mistrust and suspicion I have built.

    I definitely should have been charged with aiding a criminal…….

  114. inkslwc Says:

    Well, it’s corruption and cocky judges/prosecutors/sheriffs like that that anger me and make me dislike portions of our justice system. But did they honestly have enough evidence that they would’ve been able to get a conviction from a jury? There would’ve had to have been some proof that you helped rob the bank.

  115. Steve Smith Says:

    People DO need a second chance. In the state of Michigan you are NOT allowed to expunge any traffic offense (which can be a felony) even if it was your one and only convictions and no one was hurt. Please take into consideration that Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano is just trying to strike the section that excludes non-violent traffic offenses to be expunged. Educate yourself before you judge.

  116. inkslwc Says:

    Why should you be able to get a traffic violation expunged?

  117. mom in mich Says:

    the job that the employer helped me in court was the company that i commited the embezzlement at. They knew that it was not like me to do that and i told them how i did it and how to catch someone doing the same thing, i was not caught doing it i went and told on myself because i knew i had did was wrong.

  118. inkslwc Says:

    If it wasn’t like you to do that, then you wouldn’t have done it.

  119. Uncle Sam Says:

    Hey Pro American123…. I see you still have not receiveed any mental help yet.

    Inkslwc your big fan Pro American123 is a retart! His beef with exfelons is that his Mom and Uncles are/or should be felons because they use to beat the crap out of the little bastard.

  120. inkslwc Says:

    Uncle Sam, don’t talk about stuff you have no clue about.

  121. Juggernaut Says:

    First off I would like to say that I was convicted of a felony 3 years ago this month through a plea agreement. I never spent any time in jail or prison. I am not sorry for what I did, but I learned from my mistake. If I had to do it all over again I would. But as far as what you are saying ProAmerican123 YOU want to make ME vomit! I have worked it the construction field for 10 years and it is now suffered because of the economy. I have been a trusted employee for every company I have ever worked for and have NEVER stolen from any employer. I am now in college for the next 3 years to get my bachelors degree. I have been in search of a job for almost a year now and due to background check I can not find employment. ProAmerican123 what I am gathering from your posts is that the convicted felons out there that WANT to make an honest days living should not be able to?! I have a wife that is disabled and a child to support. I also have a car to finish paying for. Am I supposed to fold on my loan because no one will hire me? Would you rather hard working honest AMERICANS like me turn to welfare and live off your tax dollars that way for the rest of our lives? What I did never affect my work ethics or my ability to work with others. The scope of a background check should only be limited to the scope of the job you are applying for, unless they are a rapest or murder.
    e.g. someone embezzled money should not work around money, a pedifial should not work around children. I am currently writing to several senators to about putting a law in place to limit the scope of background checks. And as far as background checks are concerned, they are not always right. I have looked up myself on several background website and have found that they are saying I have 2 felony convictions and not the correct number which is 1! I have not had ANY contact with police since my conviction, not even a traffic ticket. I am eligible for expungement of my felony in 2 years and plan on going through the process to have it removed.

  122. Juggernaut Says:

    Also I personally don’t believe that any type of being county, state, or federal government should pay for a felons expungement. We put ourselves in this situation so it should be our own responsibility to find the finances to have it expunged. And 1 more thing ProAmerican123, I paid all my obligations to court and supervision fees within the first 3 months of my probation. I was also released from my probation early because of zero problems. And for any people that drink in here reading this forum condemning or demonizing felons just remember this, if you get in your car after just 1 beer or shot, YOUR BREAKING THE LAW!!!! And it’s a FELONY if your caught!

  123. inkslwc Says:

    Um, just to correct one thing: you’re not breaking a law until you pass the legal BAC level for driving.

  124. AlwaysBizy Says:

    Ah the common thread where those believing they are beyond “righteous” have the opportunity of throwing daggers at those they believe are lesser-than themselves, because fortunately for them their sins are still uncover. First, with a flawed, corrupt and greedy judicial system in place, I am all for expungement and yes at the GOVERNMENT’s expense. I hear the cries of our tax dollars, but what is so amazing is..much of what you have been led to believe your tax dollars fund is horse pucky! I’d rather fund (TAX WISE) the person looking for the second chance than wars that politicians with with an I.Q so low there is no gauge for it..START. Sending folks off to die for an unworthy and unwarranted cause is a crime, but will never be prosecuted because they are beyond the laws that hold everyone else captive. Sigh. Unless an employer is prepared to share with me all of his/her criminal history (and there are many who have committed crimes), my expungement is none of their darn business. Hell we have the right to know who we are working for and what they represent, just like they do. Bet that ain’t gonna happen! AB

  125. AlwaysBizy Says:

    Juggernaut Said: And for any people that drink in here reading this forum condemning or demonizing felons just remember this, if you get in your car after just 1 beer or shot, YOUR BREAKING THE LAW!!!! And it’s a FELONY if your caught!

    Correction: Not a felony, but a possible misdemeanor if indeed you blow a certain rate. I have a DUI and was right down the street from my house. The irony is these sort of infractions can NOT be expunged.

    One more thing I wish to add to the thread is that it isn’t until you have had to deal with the judicial system that you can furnish an opinion. I use to think all you had to do was be right. WRONG! Right and wrong has very little to do with how the law operates. This is why I believe folks should get that second chance. I was WRONG for drinking and driving. No doubt. However, I had a clean driving record for over 20 years and none of that mattered when I was in court that day. It’s all about money folks. While the judge said nothing of my clean slate prior to that day, I can assure you if I am before one again for something totally unrelated, they will be sure to bring up that blotch. Sigh. AB

  126. inkslwc Says:

    I don’t believe I’m more righteous. I would encourage my prosecution if I ever break the law.

    And yes, there are flaws in the system, but the system should be fixed, not ignored.

  127. Todd Wymer Says:

    I think that every Felon deserves a second chance I might be crazy but that is my belief’s I am a convicted Felon and have been on probation for 5 years due and have done every bit of the stipulations that have been required except paying my fines i can not find a job that will allow me to pay my bills and pay my fines on Feb.6th 2006 i was convicted on Larceny charges for accepting Scrap metal that i had no idea was stolen in the first place i explained what happened to the judge but i made no difference they still convicted me on the crime i took my punishment and now i can not find a decent job anywhere i have my G.E.D and i am half way done with my associates degree in college. everyone who is on here that has posted a response that has a Felony i would like to say if i were an employer i would give you all a job regardless of what the nature of the crime. thats all i have to say for now.

  128. Terry Says:

    Pro whoever you are dude you have been scared for life and im going to pray for you…..You can take a chance and hire someone with no background are felony and get the same dishonesty!!People lie on resumes all the time.Some of those people just sit back and wait for someone like you to put all your trust into them(the never done nothing ones)and take you for all you got at one time!!!lol so people wit traffic tickets are pices of shit too?you probably shoot birds at people on the road for going to slow….what if people could judge you by the background you came from?would you still feel this same hate?I think that you have some anger issues and your judgeing thease sittuations unfairly and for the wrong reasons.You only feel this way because of how you were treated by your family you have so much hate and anger built up that you probably wouldent give your mom a chance to build a relationship with you if she wonted too!!even though they say alcohol and drug use can be a sickness.

  129. Terry Says:

    Also i think that most the people on here who are passing judgements are just saying some really things!!how can you comment on the sky,if you were blind all your life and never seen it??You can only go on what you hear from others… what you are told about it!! PEOPLE LIE!please get this threw your head….Look at the sittuation were a guy sat in prison since 17 are 18 only to be released and found not guilty 20 are 30 years later!!for a crime he never commited…will he get those years back?no but will you still wont to no his background ?yes and would you judge him by it??yes there would still be some type excuse from you guys!Things happen and just like that guy…there are many felons who are wrongfullly accused,some who are still serving time till this day!!I was convited at 17,rideing in a car with friends and had no clue it was a stolen vehical…4 of us!!i was a back seat rider!!got charge with THEFT BY RECIVEING!!reciveing what?a ride??A FELONY why?because of the amount of the vehical…..but wait….the car wasent damaged,the person gets there car back,nobody charged with actually stealing it,we all got the same charge!OMG!!what was i suppose to do??get in and request for a valid license,insurance and registration??who does that??lol i mean forreal?THATS WHAT THE COURTS THINK!!YOU KNOWN ARE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT WAS STOLEN IS WHAT I WAS TOLD…GUESS I SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE VIN# IN LOL but n e ways i now have a big fat F for felon on my backgroud…guess money for an attorny would have helped me huh?But heres the problem…i have always worked,not the best jobs but…it payed the bills.Recently i decided you no what?I need a career,so i join a school to become a dental assistant.The school should have advised me that…with a felony you may not be able to obtain a liscense to do this(depending on what state your in)after you complete your modules.What happens is you end up with training and nothing to do with it!!o and loans you still have to pay back.now this is me…scared to death to ride in anyones car except my own..we can go to cali and i will drive the whole entire way!!lol…can’t watch the docter pull a tooth,are give him a towel to wipe your mouth lol.Its just insain….keep the faith people..one day hopefully sooner than later we will get that chance of a life time that we have been waiting for…meanwhile im gonna see can i go into buisness admin.they have grants that you can get to assist in your own buisness,maybe i will have that chance to give someone a chance………

  130. Terry Says:

    O and this is for inksdlwc,the law does not always care about evidence they convict you,send you to jail and you can try and prove your innocense later…when its hard to get phone calls in…hard to catch the right people in the offices befor you have to lock down and they leave the office for the day!!…hard to get a call returned to your familys without attitude…hard to get a letter responded to….hard to get an attorny when you dont have the money,makes it harder to get an appeal to finnally prove your innocent….by this time you already done sat so long 6 7 months maybe longer untill your ready to do and take what ever they offer just to get out of there!You go to court they offer probation,your question to them(if i accept can will i be released today??)yes you can!!you accept and thats that!!to sum it up!!HARD………..

  131. Terry Says:

    metsys ….wal system spelled backwards lol(sounds like messy huh??)lol a messy wal haha…

  132. Uncle Sam Says:

    There are countless things that Uncle Sam is guilty of…..But we continue to forgive Uncle Sam and his Henchmen (Government) who are making fools of us Americans.

    Do we not pay for Uncle Sams mistakes who is a violent Felon?????
    Hell were just trying to help our fellow americans who made a mistake and paid there debt to society get back on there feet.

    Hell we use tax payer money on a regular to expunge Uncle Sam!!!!! Whats good for the Sam is good for the people!

    Proamerican123……Your an Idiot ….and I understand why your mom/uncle beat the crap out you.

  133. Lindsay Says:

    Everyone deserves a second chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Things are tough right now anyway.
    If we gave felons a five year chance to change:
    I believe:
    Less suicides would be attempted
    People wouldn’t use as much alcohol to cope
    A huge amount of homeless people would be able to work
    Crime rates would go down
    Families would not be as torn
    Felons struggle greatly with money. After receiving a felon they struggle to pay of fines, have a home, earn trust of family and community, let go of past decisions, and basically change their whole lifestyle. This process takes about 5 years. Plus a second chance would give felons a reason to want to change. Imagine a purpose driven life for those with no hope. Or we could kick them when they are down?

  134. inkslwc Says:

    Uncle Sam, what felony has Uncle Sam committed?

  135. Uncle Sam Says:

    Slavery,Murder,Theft,War Crimes,Genocide,Crimes against Hummanity,Drug Dealing….ect.

    inkslwc you need a class in American History….You actual asked me of all people about Uncle Sam crimes.

    inkslwc you should of asked me what crime has Uncle Sam not commited.

    Uncle Sam is a Felon…..But he is exempt from the Laws of the land.

    That was a dumb question!

  136. TRex Says:

    OK….first of all there is no Uncle Sam…no Easter Bunny…or Santa Claus.. What IS however are a world full radical right and left wing dings who have a very long HISTORY of bringing the rest of us into their rock fights. So just for the sake of history these United States were formed as a result of several folks whom had grown weary of the nonsense from oppression by the government and church. This oppresion was in the form of excessive taxation and moral judgements to the point that no one had expressive freedoms. So listen up….. These United States or Uncle Sam if you prefer are certainly not perfect…but without us this world would be completely off its axis by now. We would all be speaking German, Russian or Japanese with little or no freedoms if not for this American nation of peoples from all around the world. People with a common cause and belief.
    Problem now ..many fall prey to the “Hate America” rhetoric born directly out of the mouths of those who have had thousands of years to develop their governments and laws yet remain unable to accomplish what we have in a fraction of the time. Their hatred for America is born directly out of envy of this country and its people. These vermon amount to nothing more than a pack of jealous thugs who are STILL struggling to evolve but cannot because of their own persistant ignorance. YET ! We have those living in this nation filled with opportunity beyond any nation on this earth willing to echo the chants of Anti-American sentiment that bubbles up from the third world cess pool. Reason is….the ones chanting are no different …they have never lifted a finger and certainly would NEVER be willing to make any sacrifice toward the defense of these United States.. And to those I say….dont let the door knob hit you in the ass on your way out. Uncle Sam is America and its people…our only felony is listening to your crap in the first place… Go live with your kindred victims of the third world and swat flies off your face …toss a few rocks at a tank….chant like monkey….babble rhetorical nonsense…blame others….then wake the hell up.


  137. inkslwc Says:

    Uncle Sam, I never asked you about Uncle Sam’s crimes. I asked about felonies. You answered, “Slavery,Murder,Theft,War Crimes,Genocide,Crimes against Hummanity,Drug Dealing….ect.”

    Slavery wasn’t a felony at the time. It’s wrong, but it wasn’t a felony. Murder and theft are. War crimes are not – those are international crimes. When did we ever commit genocide against people here in America? Overseas would have not been a felony.

    No government is perfect, but if we only let perfect people punish criminals, we’d be living in anarchy.

    And I hardly think that Uncle Sam is exempt from the Laws of the Land. Plenty of government officials have been punished for their criminal deeds.

  138. TRex Says:

    To get back on topic a little….. If there are going to be second chances for folks who commit a felony….then why bother with them in the first place? The law allows for special circumstances it is not literal. If you go before a judge or jury as the case may be, they hear your case and will know the circumstances…if you get whacked…good chance you had it coming.
    Murder is a felony….second chance…dont think so. There are acts that constitute a felony which in some cases should not…once the case is heard it can be reduced…have faith in the system because it does work.
    IF you go in with attitude you will leave with one worse…the system will detect it and send you right were you belong. IF you enter the system with a sober understanding of your act…the system will see that and put you right were you belong…back on the street…on parole…reduced sentence. The system does not want you or need you…you need the system because of an inability to act right and do your part in society.
    Take responsibility and stop being a bad actor…..or the system will take you out! Second chances only provide felons a chance to commit a second felony…three times your out sucker !! Adios Amigos….
    No excuses…no more second chances…


  139. Uncle Sam Says:

    inkslwc…… you must be smoking some good dope! Why was there a civil war?

    The powers to be at that time said lets abolish Salvery before a couple of those countrys across the water come over and whip our azz and punish Uncle Sam for humanity crimes.

    Well Uncle Sam demonic other half Dixie said hell no! But Sam was in power and had written it into law that slavery must be abolished!

    And the two hypocrites got into a fight. At that time inkslwc slavery was a crime and a felony!

    Well I guess you can say Uncle Sam is guilty of fraud as well. Impersonating a Government that cares about …..We the people!

    Genocide is being pratice on the Black Man,Red Man,Brown Man and the Poor White Man! Uncle Sam has sold and murdered its citizens for profit!
    Example: Iraq War.

    They should send there kids there to fight for oil and defend Uncle Sam lie and reason for this war!

    Uncle Sam is a felon who has yet to be convicted of its crimes and become a convicted felon!

    Inkslwc just say no!…..Smoking dope is a felony too! Next time take a minute out to think before you reply.

    What Im trying to say is that if we the people can expunge Uncle Sam crimes why shouldnt Uncle Sam expunge ours!

  140. Uncle Sam Says:

    Trex you must be smoking that stuff too!

    For the Lame (Trex) I use Uncle Sam in refference to the Goverment!
    And if your foolish self actual beleive that the USA is some type of saviour of the world you are as dumb as Hell!

    The Evil leading the Stupid!

    And right now Im going to give your stupidty a 2nd chance to display it self…..Sucker

    Now you Adios on my Mingo!

  141. Uncle Sam Says:

    Back to the subject:

    No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. And every one should be offered a 2nd Chance.

    Even Uncle Sam….For the lame (Trex) Im talking about the Goverment when I say Uncle Sam!

    Inkslwc forgive me for the harsh comments I made about you, because during this whole Blog you have been civil!

    Trex I have faith in my judgement about you…..Your dumb ass believe what ever the goverment tells you.

    Its Idiots like you that make it hard for we the people! Dum Dum(Trex) check G.W. Bush record he should have been convicted on a couple of felonys back in the early 80s and late 70s…..But he became the President of the United States.

    He got a 4th chance because of money and his Father. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it, Crack Head (Trex)!

    Best Regards,
    Uncle Sam

  142. Kiddsafire Says:

    I was caught up on a drug charge in 2006 just scraped money from temp jobs that let me go in just a few weeks TO PAY OFF my probation which took me THREE years to pay and Im only 22 and is desperstely trying not to ruin my second chance my judge didnt give me the HYTA program which would have cleaned my record in two years. and now every lawyer, police officer, probation officer, and city offical I run into asks me why didnt i get it I had no priors it was my first offense EVER!!! Who knows why i didnt get it but all I want is to go to college so bad but I cant find any jobs that would hire me after that and all the schools I apply to tell me I’m wasting both mine and their time I have to wait FIVE long years after my debt was long paid litterally !!!! I want and need help finding a job now but everyday Nothing I will not fail and this may be my only chance this is for people like me who needs anhonest way out.

  143. tom Says:

    id just like to say that as a convicted felon, who was found guilty of a crime that most people dont know exists, it is very hard to maintain any standard of living. i am 30 yrs old, have 3 children whom i do support, and am unemployed at the time. a couple of layoffs and a felony have kept me searching for a job. i could lie on an application, say i have no felonies but that is wrong. i was arrested for being about 3000 dollars behind in my child support. i was laid off and looking for work. there was a bench warrant for my arrest. i was having problems with my girlfriend at the time. we planned a day to hang out and try to resolve our issues. whilst there her sister, knowing i had a bench warrant, showed up unannounced and uninvited to our house, and commenced to vebally assault me. i yelled at her back and she slapped my face as hard as she could, 4 or 5 times. i told her if she did it again i would defend myself and she calmly said ok, stepped back, pulled MY phone out and called 911. she said in a crying tone “theres a guy here and he has a warrant and hes yelling at me.” my blood went cold. i remember the feeling when i heard that. i was enraged. i grabbed the phone in an effort to tell the dispatch that I was the one assaulted and the phone got hung up. now i have been convicted of acrime called interfering with an electronic communication device!! the crime wasnt assault or battery or even hanging up on 911. it is just general, someone on the ophone, u hang it up, felony.
    so now almost a year after this happened, im unemployed again, i had a job working in a scrap yard, til they went out of business. any suggestions on how I can keep my family off welfare and healthy? i dont wish to be a ceo or cfo or anything that is above normal expectations, i just want a job i can feel proud of and know im doing my part. thank you for your time.

  144. Kiddsafire Says:

    by the way i graduated highschool top of my class had a four year scholarship in music my family has a big criminal history Not me! the judge tied me to him and punnished me for what he had and was carrying on him they found everything on him not me I LOST EVERYTHING! i dont even got family anymore

  145. timrex Says:

    Inkwslwc…are you thinking what I am thinking…?
    We must have boarded the wrong bus…looks like we have a few slobbering retards picking their noses here. One of them calls himself Uncle Sam then claims Uncle Sam is a criminal involved with slavery. IS that some sort of confession or multiple personality disorder? Dont we have a black president already…still bitchin about slavery? I Really dont know how to respond to mental midgets…..in the Army we just kick their useless asses to the curb which is what I think happend to this self proclaimed Uncle Sam or Bungle Sam in this case…OR…?! Maybe this wanna-be Uncle Sam was never allowed in the service ..due to a felony or something. Dont know..really hard to follow the bad spelling and incomplete sentences…

  146. inkslwc Says:

    Kiddsafire, why are colleges turning down your applications? I can give you one piece of advice though – most colleges require essays for their admissions process, and your first comment had a lot of stylistic and grammatical errors. I don’t mean to criticize you, but you showed pretty poor writing skills, and that’s something that both employers and universities look at.

  147. Uncle Sam Says:

    timrex you have boarded the wrong bus….the short bus!!! DUMB ASS! And what in hell does a black President has to do with this? I bet your one of those fag ass sheet wearing punks that blame every one else for your punk ass not being worth the paper I wipe my ass with!

    And Blacks/Mexicans/Jews/Arabs and any other people of color and also normal white people can now settle for 50 states and the White House (Bitch)! Fuck Reperations!!!!!! Spell check That!

    And if your lame ass was in the Army gayrex its Mr. President, or you can call him Boss!

    Now that I got that crackhead (timrex/timfag)out the way let me get back to the subject:

    Also I would like to metion: Its not about Whites or People of Color, its about Us! We the People…Americans.

    Kiddsafire hold your head up! Do the best you can do and also may be you should try a trade school or a community college.

    gayrex..timrex or what ever the hell your name is …your the reason I support abortion!

    Yours Truly,
    Uncle Sam

  148. timrex Says:

    Dear Uncle Sam….

    You have done a better job at articulation and validation of my previous comments than any response possible at this juncture. You certainly have a talent for sucking up bandwidth and electrons. Turn your hat around and raise the lower jaw to were it touches the upper. OK…now run spell check on your rant….should produce a revelation. It is amazing how technology allows primates to talk…well sorta.
    Isnt this fun…!!!

  149. timrex Says:

    Kiddsafire….dont give up. I know plenty of folks who have recovered from situations like yours. First things first..put the past behind you by doing what you can today. Tomorrow will come soon enough but today is the one you live. I think that Uncle Sams advice was correct…check out a trade school or community college…there are programs for individuals who really want to make a turnaround. One day…one step at a time…set your goal and stay the course.
    Visualize your future then act on it. Gods Speed.

  150. inkslwc Says:

    Alright Uncle Sam, let’s try to keep this a little more civil.

  151. Uncle sam Says:

    Mr. timgay, timfag,timrex or whatever the fuck your name is.

    May be your educated want to be dumb ass should do a spell check for your own rant. For instance ….were should have been where ….What the fuck is sorta? That should have been spelled sort of. Okay now pay close attention fake ass scholar. Isnt should have spelled isn’t.

    Timfag this is a blog… not an exam. It only takes me a couple of minutes to exploit your stupidity. While it more than likely takes your stupid ass quite some time to think of that dumb shit you are writing.

    The end is near for the evil, weak, Jackals here on earth!

    Isn’t that a bitch I’m sitting here going back and forth with an ass hole that’s part of the Caniforms family. Fucking mutt!

    Dumb Fuck! That’s my 2 minute thought of you for today 🙂

    Uncle Sam (LOL)

  152. Uncle sam Says:

    Sorry about that inkslwc !Im just being honest. Make sure you do a spell check! Do you consider your self a primate?

  153. Uncle sam Says:

    Okay Inkslwc I will try to keep it civil. I just dislike people who do not show there ture colors. Undercover hate mungers! And you are intellegent enough to know what Im talking about!

    Okay lets help some fellow Americans!

  154. timrex Says:

    Well there you have it folks…in a “nutshell” the two minute thought.

  155. yvette wright Says:

    thank u for taking time out to help change my life

  156. Sandra Says:

    This is sad. Typical response for an individual whose never experienced anything. Sure you may have been fortunate enough to be raised in by the nuclear family. But what about children from the inner city whose life choices are significantly more limited than your own? These individuals are doomed to commit non-violent crimes such as, drug pushing, burglary just to survive. In these tough economic times how can an individual try to change if the offenses of his past are constantly hanging over his head? Think of the children this individual produces doomed to continue the cycle. Stop looking through your rose colored glasses we are only as strong as our weakest link. What we’ve been doing just doesn’t work! It’s time for change and a new way of looking at things.

    Let’s stop being conservative and start getting real!

  157. inkslwc Says:

    There are plenty of people who grow up in broken, inner city homes who don’t go and break the law. The blame lies with those who break the law.

  158. champagne Says:

    so i let someone stay with me and they had some marijuana that i didnt know about and when we were gone the police accidently raided my apartment instead of the one they were looking for and found it. since he wasnt on the lease i was charged with it and got charged with sales and manufacturing because he had more than one bag. so now im supposed to have my life ruined. you heartless pieces of shit! as if everyone who screws up should just rot away because the authorities love dishing out felonies for everything they can. you people are ignorant assholes. it is possible for people to be rehabilitated you know. or i guess they could just get tired of rotting away and give up trying to do the right thing and clim in thru your windows in the middle of the night lol

  159. larry Says:

    give me a break. When will the persecution of one who has committed a non violent crime quit. The person has already served jail time, paid restitution, and been publicly humiliated. When will socity and the legal system cut the person some slack. Is it a lifelong punishment when a person makes a mistake. If a person has a felony of say unpaid traffic tickets, should he or she be barred from openining up a home day care center. The two have no relevance to each other yet the system will not allow it to happen. It seems to me that the system wants to destitute people who have made mistkes and keep them at minimum wage jobs or dead end jobs if they are lucky enough to find one. It is very sorry.

  160. Brandon Says:

    I was arrested and charged with a violent felony/ weapons possession. I had a belt buckle that resembled brass knuckles laying in the back seat, with the leather belt.

    I was moving up in the world, I was 18 starting my own business and doing pretty good. Now because of a 5 dollar belt buckle my life is over, I’m failing every background check because I committed a violent crime. All I wanted/want to do is go to school and be successful. I’m now 19 and seriously considering killing myself. Why? Because I can’t find decent employment. In turn I can’t attend school because I have no way to afford it. No woman will date a guy working for minimum wage, at least seriously. Any hopes of having a family are over for me.

    Thanks Oakland County. Thanks for throwing the book at an 18 year old with a clean record.

    To be on topic, I’m saying that people get felony’s for bullshit reasons quite often. I think I deserve to be able to pay my way though school. Without this felony charge I’d be able to.

  161. timrex Says:

    Brandon….to be honest if what you said were true then there would be reason for anger…but even so, the only thing holding you back is anger.
    We all encounter situations in life that are unjust in both ways…negative and positive..there is a direct coorelation between our attitude and the situations outcome. It is my bet that the belt is not the reason for your life being over as you dramatically state…it is the result of something ELSE you did in conjuction with the belt…lets say your reaction to the cops at that time or during some point in the process may have played a role…?? You can react all you want..the world is not going to change until you do…my best advice…so get up…go back into the ring with your dream and make it happen…no more excuses.


  162. champagne2878 Says:

    timerex you my friend are as ignorant as the laws, maybe it is true that there is something else to it but you dont know that and no-one should have to struggle through something that they shouldnt be in trouble for in the first place. who cares what his attitude was towards the cops. screw the cops they are people just like the rest of us and are just as crooked, i know this because i have known crooked cops and lets not forget they are here to protect and serve and not harrass and enslave. i have a felony for not returning some video tapes to a video store when i moved out of state wtf! my roommates were supposed to return them and they didnt so the owner reported they were worth over 200 dollars a piece because they were new releases! now i am supposed to break my back just to hope i can pay my bills and support my wife and kids so you my friend have no clue what the reality is with the laws today jerk!

  163. Brandon Says:

    I was pulled over for expired tags. My vehicle was then searched because I was in a rough area, and a kid. I wasn’t an asshole, because i had nothing to hide. If i had been an asshole, I could have refused a search and when the dogs showed up and yielded nothing I would have been free to go.

    Again, nothing to hide. Though the whole process of getting booked/sitting in jail I tried to be the nicest guy I could, knowing that when people act like pricks they get fucked. During my trial, the arresting officer even commented on what a “polite, intelligent young man” I was. I’ve been refused job’s everywhere, Kroger, Nat city, general labor jobs. I will not lie to get a job. Every app/person I talk to knows about my background. I have strong morals and I refuse to lower myself to lie to a possilbe or current empoyer.

    Because of my crime and honesty I cannot get a decent job. I have a job now, but I can only afford my rent and bills. I honestly only have about 25-30 dollars extra every month. Unfortunately that goes to food.

    You can see how getting that felony lifted would be a godsend, even if I couldn’t afford it.

  164. inkslwc Says:

    Brandon and champagne2878, those are both problems with the laws that define felonies, not laws on expungement.

  165. champagne2878 Says:

    yes but it is directly related to how expungement would help to right the wrongs that have been done and it is also posted in rbuttle to statements about how if you have a felony its your own fault and tough crap as if everyone who has a felony is just some piece of crap who doesnt deserve a chance to be a contributer to the community other than spitting in your burgers at burger king

  166. timrex Says:

    They may have a point ! Certainly Brandons case as stated indicates a severe lack of reason on the part of law inforcement…!! Brandon…your response to my comments were measured and clear which passes the check on your attitude….which causes me to pause…only question I have is this if you dont mind answering….did the dogs find anything and what was the charge?

  167. timrex Says:

    Champagne..do not disagree that some laws are ignorant or applied as such…and yes there are cops which fit the discription of ignorant asshole !.. BUT…felony for video tapes!!…how many !? Typically they just send you a bill….felony for not returning tapes just does not fall into a category that the state is typically willing to pursue..unless you had a truckload…..any priors might have caused the response also….was there a need for your return to the state for another reason….?

  168. champagne2878 Says:

    it was austin powers, stephen kings it and some other movie and they said they were worth over 200 dollars a piece and after i sat in jail for 7 1/2 months waiting for court in the great state of montana i took a plea bargain because my lawyer said that i would probably lose. oh and it is technically called felony theft by conversion and i was extradicted there solely for that charge in which they gave me tons of fines and chrged me double the cost of extradition. thats how they make their money there. ofcourse it was also in a town there known to be currupt in that way. Also i believe that the lady who owned the small video store was related to the detective who charged me because he seemed to know her personally. i have no reason to lie here, i am aperson who will take responsibility for his own actions and always have been. The officers and my probation officer didnt believeit either until they looked at my paperwork and then just laughed at me and said thats funny, which i agree i would not believe someone either and would probably laugh when i found out its true. but believe it or not i have seen many other things happen to people in my life and its just rediculous. my friend when i was younger got caught with 2 joints rolled up in a cigarette pack and the cops charged him with felony posession delivering and manufacturing because they were rolled up seperately and was convicted and now has a felony too. Now it is for drugs and not video tapes like me but come on! how should they be able to ruin someones life for that? he was 18 at the time.

  169. champagne2878 Says:

    was in jail in montana forthe vids and another guy was in there because he bought a truck from someone he knew in vegas, he even went with her to the bank and paid the truck off and got everything switched to his name then moved back to montana and about a year later the woman got pulled over in vegas buying some crack and told the police she was looking for the guy because he beat her up and stoleher car, so the police issued the warrant or whatever then he gets picked up in montana for stealing the car, meanwhile vegas informed montana that it was a mistake and the woman lied but did they let him go? nope they heldhim there for 6 months for court and when they tried to come to him with a plea agreement he told them hey i got a deal for you, you guys let me go right now or im suing you period and next thing you know they are calling his name and telling him to round his stuff up to go home and i even heard the people tell him the charges are dropped and the whole time i was there i heard it straight from the guards that his story was true. he gotlucky he didnt get ruined for life for nothing and even still its 6 months of his life thats gone not to mention he had a decent job which he lost because of thecourts greed. i think expunging peoples felonies is a good thing in some cases, to help that one person who didnt deserve his punishment be free of the burden it is definitely worth it.

  170. champagne2878 Says:

    really to be honest even the people who really do a real crime should have a second chance to redeem themselves. except for sex offenders and people like as i believethey should all be burned to death. oh man sorry here i go again with another story but this will be my last i promise. a guy 19 with a girlfriend of 17 who had been together long enough in the state they were from to be considered legally married and had a new baby decided it would be great to move to montana. they did and got into a screaming match but there was no physical (i know this to be true as i read his police reports) the neighbors called the copsbecause of the yelling and when they were talking to them they realized that she was only 17 and he was 19 and took him to jail because she wasnt old enough and he was charged with rape as they do not have stangetory or however you spell that, they just charge you with rape there. when he went to court he did kinda act sorta like a smart azz but only a little and the judge gave him 20 years and told him he had to do half before he could parole. now i dont remember what exactly he said in there to the judge but i remember it wasnt really thatbad at all but he just wasnt kissing the judges rear. his “wife” still visited him while i was there and his daughter is probably around 8 years old by now and has no dad to love her and when he gets out he will be rejected by society because of the charge that is glued to him. i know these things to be true as i stated i read his paperwork and police reports. i think an expungement would be good for too. these people may not live in michigan except my friend who had the 2 joints but i tell you now that this goes on there too as well as every state across america.

  171. Brandon Says:

    No, the dog’s didn’t find anything. Thats just not me.

  172. timrex Says:

    Very compelling stories…and I certainly agree that unjust situations do occur and the pursuit of expungement should be viewed as an equally if not more important part of justice. Truth be told…the world is rarely fair.
    This brings the burden of self assessement back to center…in this case they should have been aware of the age difference ….dont act out and bring attention…emotions overcame logic…damage done…If the Cops had ignored the situation and then their argument esculated later into a homicide…shame on the Cops…in this case the Parents should have been notified …state only pursues when there is a defendant….and witnesses….



  173. champagne2878 Says:

    yes but in the state they moved there from they were legal. the police, judge, and prosecuter knew the age difference i meanhow could they not, point is they didnt care, the only thing they cared about was filling another bed in the prison. you see they get i believe around 80 dollars a dayforevery state inmate they hold and around 150 for any federal inmates they hold. that is big business considering how much they make and how much they spend. that brings the the felon convictions up and destroys lives. as far as the state only pursues if there is a defendant and a witness, that is very much untrue, the state picks up the charges regardless if anyone wants to press charges or not in any kind of case like this or most any cases nowadays.

  174. timrex Says:

    Couple of thoughts….jails are full..was not aware of a need for more…if they came from a state where 16 is legal..then there should not have been a case…especially if the defendant was not willing to cooperate.

    One thing for certain…some very compelling and articulate comments coming forth…suggestion for those of you capable of articulation…make a comeback…make a difference…write a book on the subject..nothing better than an author with passion on a subject to create a great read…if felonies are so important…then they should be more difficult to achieve…sort of like a PHD….right!
    You can publish your own E book via Amazon..there are many other avenues also…keep me posted….


  175. champagne2878 Says:

    jails are full yes but there are constantly new privately owned prisons going up everywhere and when they do they apy out to the state which in turn fill their beds. the attitude of the states is if there is a empty bed then it needs to be filled. i am willing to bet my life on it that if a prison was built to house a couple million people it would be filled within a year or 2 without effecting the overcrowding of the jails and prisons already in place. research the term prisons for profit and im sure you would come up with all kinds of info. also believe me if i thought i could write a book lol i would. the fact is that america has lost its way in this area. how many people are sitting in prison right now because the police just had to convict somebody to get a conviction. if i were to spit in an alley while walking by and someone kills someone there 2 minutes later and they happen to fall in my spit you better believe im gonna have some explaiing to do and if they have no other suspects you better believe i will rot in prison if i cant afford a great lawyer. this is ofcourse getting of the topic. either way i believe that unless you are a sex offender or murderer and even then the circumstances should be evaluated, you should have the right to start anew. you pay for your crime when you are sentenced and should not pay for it for the rest of your life, this may not apply to every case but if we do not give people a REAL secondchance then we will just be creating re-offenders out of necessity just as if i could not get a job to pay the bills and my children are starving believe me i will find a way to feed them even if that means that i have to take what they need from someone else, its plain old survival. now as far as employers having the right to know if they are hiring a thief to handle their money then maybe a database could be where employers can just enter in a social security number and the type of job that they are hiring that person for and could get back something merely stating whether that said person is ok for that type of job. meaning that if someone had say a marijuana charge they could then get a job as a cashier or bookworker but if someone had say someone who was convicted of embezzlement then the computer would spit something out like not qualified then if the person trying to get the job explains himself and the employer is willing to hire him anyways they both together apply for the criminal records. see then people will not get turned down for jobs that are decent that had nothing to do with what they were convicted of. then they would have a great shot at doing soething for themselves and nobody would have to pay for them to be expunged and yet they would still have their record over them incase they decided to re-offend. infact i kinda like this idea myself as i would love to be a firefighter but there is nothing i can do to be one because of my felony. maybe i will write that webb guy who is trying to come up with ways to revamp our criminal system along with some other political people i cant think of off-hand. i mean wouldnt that kinda make everyone happy, i think it should appeal to both sides of this debate to some degree. please give me any feedback you guys have and i will try to write something and forcfeed it to every politician out there and maybe someone will listen.

  176. timrex Says:

    I am not doubtful about your ability to write a book on this subject…I am certain of it…you have good points and ideas…bring together other folks stories and circumstances..provide them an outlet and opportunity to be heard….leverage off of those situations into the bigger picture of how things are and ought to be…focus on the positive …show the humane side…help people understand the waste and crime in our current system that you see….most of all through the process remain responsible and balanced…see both sides..understand the bigger picture…as in we are all in this together etc…

    Lay out your thoughts into a logical sequence….foundation then frame…once established…put meat on the bones….your book will begin to take shape and make sense to you at some point….

    Peace out…


  177. inkslwc Says:

    Who’s the “they” that’s getting money for holding inmates?

  178. champagne2878 Says:

    the they is the county thats holding them. they get money from the federal government for every federal inmate they hold. they get money from their state for every state inmate they hold which actually comes from the fed in the first place and it all comes from the tax payers in reality. they get around 80 dollars for every state inmate from the state and around 150 for every federal inmate from the fed per day. which when you add it up its alot considering almost every jail holds a few hundrred people multiply that by the per day. they probably only spend a couple dollars per day per inmate in food. ofcourse they have to pay their staff but from what i’ve heard that isnt all that much infact when i was in montana they actually hired their staff off of the street and only paid them 10 per hour. do the math and you will see its big busines and thats just for the county jails. if you wanna get into the prisons we’re talkin alot more than that. im sure if every dollar was investigated one would find alot of personal kickbacks.

  179. champagne2878 Says:

    privately owned prisons are actually owned by companies that run these as a business but a certain percentage of their money earned goes back tothe state or county or both for letting them set up and operate. i have seen some of them go up before and their beds are filled immediately like one in montana was built and just 2 months later they were crying in the papers about being overcrowded and how they want to set upanother one to deal with it. there are private prisons now in most states if im not mistaken. some states have more than one. its all business now locking people up and that is disgusting. they just slap a dollar sign on ya and herd you around like cattle and then turn ya loose hoping to see ya again, knowing that more than likely they will given you will get frustrated with notbeing able move forward in life and most re-offend and come back to make the state/county more money and the rest just live low income lives for the rest oftheir lives. some however find their break but those breaks are few and far between. its sad, the circle has evolved into this. i understand about people not wanting to hire criminals but i also understand that people can change if given that chance. if i had to risk hiring a felon and having him steal 50 dollars from the register to try and help him change then i would and if he screwed up i would do what i had to do but if he doesnt and changes his life because i helped him eventhough no-one else would then that is a true blessing. but anyways as i stated up above my 2 posts back there is a way to get around this it would take some tweaking butit could do some good. i mean would you care if someone became a fireman or something just because they had a domestic violence felony? but if they had a theft felony then you would would not want them running your store im sure. so if business owners could just know if their crimes pertain to what they would actually be doing or have access to by the system i somewhat described above then they would have a shot but still keep their record incase the re-offend and nobody would have to pay for their expungement but the government would only have to pay for an automated system and then everyone would be happy and there would be far less re-offenders because they would not re-offend out of the despairity and depression of notbeing able to make itin this world without breaking their backs just to get nowhere in life. i am so depressed about my situation that i would more than likely turn to selling drugs orsomething to that effect if it were not for my wife and 3 children so instead im breaking my mind and body just in hopes that i can pay my bills. i cant go to school for anything hardly becuse even if i do im probably not gonna get a job in any field and i cant afford the school to go anyways and the government will not give school loans orgrants to anyone with a felony. so it is a vicuos cycle. yet i still hope that one day i can find my break and beyond the cycle so that one day i can stop struggling just to pay the necessities in this life. i only have one earthly life and can only hope its not all a struggle, please just let me have some peace.

  180. Disillusioned Says:

    Keep in mind that our criminal Justice system is a revenue-generator, NOT a justice guarantor.

    Until all defendants are provided with “competent” counsel and the courts prohibit the practice of plea bargaining, the disdain we feel toward “convicted felons” should be based on details, not broad strokes.

    When most rational people think of a “convicted felon,” they imagine predatory types who strong-arm the weak into submission. This is not always the case. Sometimes, a person may be charged and convicted of a felony for protecting said “weak” from said “criminal.”

    Or, perhaps, a nosy bystander may observe a situation out of context, misconstrue and report it. Then, the police come and manipulate the situation (using the public trust against same) into a felony, supported by the, now, defendant’ own unwitting cooperation. After his arrest, the defendant is arraigned and provided with a public defender who, in an effort to expedite his/her own caseload and to nurture professional relationships with the prosecutor’s office, convinces their client (the defendant who, at this point, still believes in the system they studied in American Civics class) that their case is “unwinnable” and that a conviction after jury trial will be at least 3-5 years, effectively coercing the timid and woefully naive defendant into mitigating the risk by taking probation.

    Sure. The defendant has a choice, but when the one person who is supposed to be on your side acts in their own best interest, at the defendant’ expense, how is a decent American “victim of the system” supposed to live down his mistake (in trusting the system that betrayed him)? Justice shouldn’t be reserved for the rich.

    It’s easy to judge until you feel the sting of injustice for yourself. Take it from me!

  181. Geoff Says:

    Sad that a person is not allowed to change. I was convicted of an unarmed robbery (which I did not do, but that does not matter at this point). It was 11 years ago. I have full custody of my son because his mother (not a felon, could have any job she wants) over dosed on drugs (still alive and can still be your doctor, or office manager, etc.). It should not be about what you have done in your past. Your past is exactly what it is, your past. I have paid for my mistake from 11 years ago. I am college educated. I volunteer in the community helping out when I can. I struggle every day trying to find a dead end job just to survive. These laws are not punishing me. They are punishing my son. He was not alive when the crime happened. He does not have gameboys, Nikes, Playstations, designer clothes. He can’t go hunting or learn how to use a gun to enjoy hunting. He is the one that will not be given the opportunites as most kids. I not only learned my lesson, but am a different person today. I probably do more good for the community than most of the non felons complaining on this sight. I hope no one here is a religous person because most religions teach forgiveness. You can’t say you have paid your penalty, we forgive you, but you can’t do anything meaningful career wise. It does not work like that (well actually it does, just really is not forgiveness). Please see people that you punish the kids. Your tax payer dollars are being wasted on me by not allowing me to work meaningful jobs that are self supporting. I am receiving food stamps and emergency help. Not because I want to. I feel pathetic doing so. But the law makers and citizens have left me no choice. I go out everyday looking for jobs, working odd jobs for money (not very handy with tools and fixing stuff). Unfortunately I am one of those people that are intelligent but really terrible when it comes to construction type projects. Not that I don’t work hard and try, just not one of my skills. I am not saying let every felon off the hook. I know a lot of felons that I would not want working at my business if I had one. I know a lot of felons that are more qualified and would want working for me too. Not all of us are bad people. Just made some bad choices at a younger age. Sometimes I don’t think people are scared that felons are going to “harm” them. I think they are scared of competition for their job. I for one, with having experienced very terrible situations and can still hold my head up, do the right thing, and have an education, would do most peoples stressful jobs better and more efficient than what they could. Not to say everyone’s, but my point is I am a hard working person that just wants his family not to have to pay for eternity for my mistake. Give some of us a chance. Please, if anyone has any questions or intelligent responses that are not to degrate me, feel free to email at geoffawentworth@yahoo.com . I look forward to opposition to my opinion as long as it is done constructively. Maybe I explain my situations and feelings to show you that we should be dealt with as individuals. Not a class of people. We are all different.

  182. terrance howard Says:

    the judicial system is srewed period. there are some things in life more important to worry about than petty crimes that people ge locked up for. if there is one person out there who has not commited a sin his life, let me know. because you should be jesus. everyman deserves a chance i dont care how many times he messed up. as long as he didnt kill no one for a thrills or just out of stupidity. or likes to molest little kids, then that man or woman has a problem. but you lockig them up and taking their God giving right to work. the people of America is asking for trouble if you give these felons jobs you can really track where they are at idiots. and not worry about your kids getting involved in gangs, drugs, sex, and murder get your head out of your asses.

  183. Geoff Says:

    Terrance, you are right. Most of the self righteous idiots that want every person that made a mistake to be punished for life, probably did not get caught. They forget, drinking and driving in my state can land you a felony. You don’t have to be smashed, just two to three drinks in an hour or so period. Yeah, none of them ever drove after a few drinks, expieremented with any drugs, or anything wrong. Whats messed up is that just last week, an old manager of mine took over a company. He wanted to hire the best person to fill his internet department. He chose me. I went in for the interview, 2nd interview, passed their drug test, was starting work and was told that the corporation was not allowed to hire me. Company policy. Doesn’t matter that the person running that franchise knew me (not a friend, co worker), knew my accomplishments, knew my work ethic, and knew the results and money I could make the company. I was disqualified because of a mistake I made 11 years ago. I did my time. Completed my parole with no mess ups. Have not been in trouble, not even small, since release. Just someone that did not like where his life was headed and the decisions he was making. A person that learns and grows from mistakes (not just breaking the law, in life in general. America has to give us a chance to prove we have matured and are making better decisions in life. If not, you WILL have problems. You ARE already having problems. Keeping felons from being self supporting is hurting you family, your children, your property values, etc. I could be a felon that wants to be an outstanding citizen. No more breaking rules. But, if a man has no food for himself and his family, no self worth because he can’t do anything, he will survive. He will be the leader of your local street gangs. He will be the one to start a criminal organization or gang in your middle class neighborhood. He will be your drug dealer. He will rob you and hurt your family. He has a choice of having nothing, no self worth, and money to survive on, or he will have the choice of doing what he has to do to survive. What do you want? You can’t have it both ways. You want him to have a chance at a good job and crime going down? From the sounds of most of you simple minded idiots, you want PAST criminals to get desperate and raise the crime rate. That way your tax money can be spent having more cops to make you feel safer when you are not (not to mention, the extra cops will just be sitting in their car waiting to catch you without your seatbelt on, CLICK IT OR TICKET!, only responding to a 911 call after a crime happens). Hope that will make you feel more safe. Open your mind and get your heads out of your asses.

  184. Disillusioned Says:

    The world is full of hypocrites who like feeling superior. They forget though, “freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”

    That’s where I’m at now.

  185. Geoff Says:

    Champagne, believe that there is big money in prisons. I can’t speak for every state, but I know michigan. The officer union is one of the strongest in the state. Not to mention there are more govt. workers in michigan than private sector. Michigan has a fraction of the population of California, but the same amount of inmates and prisons. Why the big difference?? Because Michigan will put you in prison for little stuff and they have dual sentencing to keep the prison full. What that means is a minimum and maximum sentence. Supposed to be if you complete classes and get in no trouble, you go home on your minimum. If not, the parole board can keep you around. Well, the only way you get out is when the prison is full. When that happens, they consider you not a threat to society. Another messed up part is that they will let people out that are child molesters and get in trouble inside, because they know they are coming back. They can use this to post on the news, keep people in fear, and have a justified reason to increase their budget. That is one way the prison is a cash cow. Not to mention, when our govenor was John Engler, he entered into contract with a family member that owns a chicken and turkey farm to purchase food. You better believe you eat pretty much only turkey and chicken. Even the burger is turkey burger. Entered into a ridiculous lenght contract too. Also, when he was govenor, the amount of prisons tripled while the crime rate stayed the same. Why? Could it be that his brother in law owned the company that received the contract to do the fencing (a minimum security has to have at least 2 fences with razor while on top and filled in between the two fences)? Not to mention the company got to install hundreds of cameras at each prison, motion sensors, fire alarms, etc. Now let’s look at big business (that have lobbying power). The collect calls. You have to use their phone. Is the phone owned by the state? NO. The state gets a kick back for the phone company to have a monopaly. I am talking for a local call, $3.65 for the first minute and $0.75 each additional minute. Huge money every year. You are talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Now lets go to vendors. Inmates are allowed to purchase tv’s, purchase cabe, purchase clothes, etc. Not from their store of choice, but through approved vendors. The list goes on and on. All of these big money, big lobbying companies have a lot to lose not to keep the prisons full. Not to mention the stongest union has a lot to lose (their jobs) if the prisons are not full. If they can shut one prison down, that is at least two hundred jobs. Believe it is big business. Be scared that the ones that should get released on time are not. I have watched in disbelief how people that tell the board they will reoffend are released the first time seeing the board. Very scary stuff.

  186. Disillusioned Says:


    The corruption of our entire nation’s prison system (and the criminal justice system that keeps it fed) couldn’t have been stated more eloquently.

    Have you ever considered writing a documentary on the subject?

    The political system is beyond repair and overcoming their constant overexertion of “self-endowed power” will not be easy, especially when it makes so many of them so much payola. However, in a recession such as America is experiencing now (especially in states like Michigan, who seem to have been sacrificed by the rest of the Union as “undesirable”), even the most deeply brainwashed voter will become enraged against government excess.

    A video indictment of the whole torrid affair may be just what’s needed to get the voters [or militias] to force the entire “LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!!” community to clean up their collective acts, revert to the Constitutional agenda of “Peace Officers” & “Blind Justice,” and stop feeding off of the society that they are paid to serve, not control.

    There’s has become a profession to be despised, not glorified. Andy Taylor is gone, but his spirit can be revived. All it takes is courage.

    Count me in (for a Floridian point of view)!

    In any case, thank you for your last post.

  187. Mash Says:

    As a convicted “Felon” i too have undergone the crule and unjust dont call us we’ll call you, never get hired, can’t afford to feed my children, house gone into forclosure because the economy has made our house payment so sky high my dissabled ex-military hubby can’t even afford it state won’t help us out because they do not see what we all see type of life. No i am not making excuses for myself theese are just the outcomes of what hapened. When i was 21 a bunch of “friends” and i had gotten out of work and hung out together at the local 24 diner for coffee. on the way out of the door on of my friends saw something lying on the ground. she picked it up and it was a wallet. She said she was going to go back in and give it to the manager that was working. We went home and the next time we all met up was to go shopping for shoes and what not. We went to the mall several places just hanging out girl stuff right. Three months later a police officer shows up at my job asks me if this was a picture of me i looked at it it was i said yes and he aressted me. Low and behold that wallet that my “friend” had found, she used a credit card out of and rang up over 1300 dollars on it. Now i keep asking myself why was i charged for it when she did the crime. question two why was six diffrent people that were all shopping at the same places getting charged with the same crime? and three how was i guilty by hanging out with someone? I too had a public deffender had waited the 5 plus years had not even had a traffic ticket since yet canno’t get a job or even an expungment because it was droped to two seperate charges of uttering and publishing and use of a transaction device. At the time i was arrested i had a job that paid 14 an hour married two kids finished high school. now i can’t get a job at Mc’d or even a taxi driving job? WTF? I believe that if not hiding the record after so many years at least classifying the record as non-violent. I am not a murderer or a rapist. I was guilty of shopping for Christ’s sake. I have written to Mrs. Granholm i get the standard you request has been submitted button. With never a response. I am thinking of startin a buisness to hire only felons. Yet you have to have money to put into a buisness which i sadly do not.

  188. ALL_American Says:

    To: ProAmerican123. I see you wrote this over a year ago. I am not a felon. I just have to put my 2-cents in. People like you scare me. I wonder what will happen to you if/when you get involved in something by chance or choice that results in a conviction and you find yourself in the same place as the rest of “the garbage” (as you so eloquently put it). Karma is a royal bitch and has no remorse. You should seek therapy for the abuses that you have suffered from those that are so far beneath you.

  189. Disillusioned Says:

    Consider the source, ALL_American.

    He/She acts high and mighty behind his/her boastful lies of being an “executive” and for earning a “masters degree.” This twit/twat is so illiterate, not even Brown would have commenced him/her from their graduating class.

    He/She obviously likes to gloat and point fingers at everyone but him/herself, while telling lies to steal compassion from the easily deceived.

    “my mom tried to kill me,” my uncles beat me.” Boo hoo hoo. He/she forgot to mention his/her behavior that led him/her to being punished in the first place.

    It is “pukes” like him/her that cast stones and then revel in it when their plan to destroy a life is successful. Crying wolf (a.k.a. bearing false witness) is a crime against decency, honor, integrity and God.

    I hope that “puke” gets held to account for his/her views by some big thug-type criminal who snatches him/her from his/her local bar and finishes the job his/her “mother” failed at.

  190. geoff301 Says:

    To the ones that don’t think prisons are big business, look at Michigan right now. The state is completely broke. We have the highest unemployment rate. The governor has been trying to close prisons for the last four or five years now. Well, it has finally been done. If you have completed your minimum and are not in trouble, you are being released (that is what is supposed to happen in the first place!). The media has already started with the lies (paid to lie and manipulate by the lobbying powers). They are running stories about the dangers of releasing inmates early (they are not releasing early, they are releasing prisoner unjustly held). Stories how your children and families are in danger, especially with no jobs out there for the felons (the only thing they said that makes sense, keep a felon out of work is dangerous!). They have already started with the fear tactics and the guards union is already started with the economic dangers of laying off more people in Michigan. You know what, every sector in Michigan has had cuts. Why is the government not being cut too? Finally it is. But anyone thinking prisons are not big business, look at all they money being spent in Michigan to manipulate one sides agenda. If it is not business, where is the money coming from? Anyhow, that is the main reason most felons can never have meaningful careers and second chances. They want to make it as difficult as possible to survive, increase the recidivism rate, install fear with manipulated numbers and stats, and get rich in the process while the tax payer loses money.

  191. champagne2878 Says:

    i am sooo glad to see other people see the truth behind the curtain, yet i am sooo very sorry that anyone else has to feel the pains that i too feel in this terrible game being played with human lives. we are people, not heartless animals but the fact is that if you self-righteous people out there want to treat people like animals then you should expect people to behave as animals. I just want to work and support my children, and give them a chance to be good people. I am not a criminal because i messed up before. I have changed everything imaginable in my life. I have a wife and 3 kids, 1 of which is disabled and i have been coaching her baseball team which is for disabled children for 3 yrs. i am a church member and also have been active at times with doing things like being in the city perade for my church. I just want a chance butthey dont want me to have it. Why? Because they hope to see me again, thats why and that is wrong. period!

  192. TRex Says:

    I see your still at it…lots of good debate with insight into the political arena on the subject…hows that book coming along…? Dont forget to do that….

  193. Danner Says:

    All you fkng liberals!!!!Thinking you know it all.Get a clue you have no clue.I was convicted of four felonies one misdemeanor seven years ago.I have been a productive member of society and nead my gun rites!!!Yeah thats rite to protect my family from real killers…..I live in Detroit and prevented a home invasion homicide and exspect a retaliation.So you want to deny me of my gun rites its been seven years and no trouble and to top it off I have officers as freinds.So you want me to defend my family with a garden rake????,Make your choice Who really should own a firearm????? When cops kill there own wives.You tell me tax payer when I could be saving your life!!!!Think about it

  194. Paul Satterlee Says:

    I am one of those rare felons who was innocent. My wife lied to get a personal protection order on me.We had been married 20 years and had 5 kids.Afterwards she would call me and want to meet with me.When I called her later she would call the police.SHe would e-mail me and when I reponded she would call the police.I was trying to get my family back together and she had continual contact with me.In court it was never even implied that I had in any way threatened her. I got a felony ,for what it turned on , for annoying my then wife.THe laws are rediculas.And now I am going through all the same Job things.Can’t fined one. Other than this one thing I always lived an honest normal life.

  195. Disillusioned Says:

    In a Police State, the, ahem, “authorities” like to charge anything they can whether it benefits the public or not. The more folks they can “felonize,” the fewer folks there will be to rebel against their tyranny.

    Except, they forgot about Americans who know their rights and are willing to die (like the founding fathers) to protect them.

    The only “people” LEO serves are the elitist scum who live their entire lives as criminals and enemies of the Constitution, all the while, preaching to us from their Ivory Towers.

    BTW, Danner… The Second Amendment protects your right to keep and bear arms by preventing the government from passing laws that infringe upon them. What laws rule you? The arbitrary and unconstitutional (thus illegal) legislation that the bleeding-heart libtards impose, or the ultimate and immutable law of the Constitution.

    Buy your firearms face to face from private owners, that way, the jack-boot thugs won’t know you have them and the FFL fees they couldn’t charge you won’t bolster their already overflowing coffers.

    Furthermore, if you use them to save lives, you and a real attorney will likely convince a jury of your peers that the law is unconstitutional and that your actions were both responsible and humanitarian.

    Just remember, with legal representation like everything else, you get what you pay for.

    NO PLEA AGREEMENTS, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TO TRIAL… MAKE THE STATE PAY IF THEY WANT TO RUIN YOUR LIFE… DON’T HAND THEM A WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  196. Another Mich Felon Says:

    I agree with alot of the comments about if your poor and commit a crime you get screwed. I made a false police report when i was 17 that i got a felony from. I no longer can hunt, get a decent job or anything. Im going to college into a IT major but even with the degree it will be hard to get a job. Felons and your avergae citizens alike pay taxes, so why shouldnt any of it help us?

  197. zachary Says:

    Don’t forget the fact that before becoming a felon, these people were (for the most part) tax paying citizens just like yourselves. Don’t you people realize that it costs more to house an inmate. ($32,500/year) to house an inmate in a Michigan prison. Where do you think that money comes from??? Your taxes!!!
    Why don’t we just execute felons then. Then you won’t have to worry about being scared, and paying taxes for them. Wouldn’t it be better to have these people working, paying taxes, and being a productive member of society, then to be stuck in the revolving door of our state’s penal system. It’s a revolving door because of these exact reasons, there is no rehabilitation or training in Michigan prisons, the job market is non-existent for ex-offenders.
    Do most people not learn from their mistakes? Of course there are bad apples, and exceptions, and risks. You risk your life every day you walk out the door.
    There are a many people who deserve to be in prison, and don’t deserve a second chance, I agree. What about the percentage of people who, after prison, want nothing more than to live a normal life, don’t want to steal, don’t want to sell drugs, or hurt people. Most of you are saying that its over for them, they had their chance at life and screwed it up. That’s really sad…this is America..What about the fact that over 20% of Michigan inmates are in prison for non-violent drug offenses, and Michigan has some of the harshest drug laws in the state.
    Oh, and for that person who asks what everyone did to go to prison- I possessed 3.5 ounces of Marijuana, was subsequently put on felony probation due to prop. 7411, which I violated and was re-sentenced with the elevated charge of delivery of Marijuana. I recieved 2-4 years MDOC.
    I’ve come to the realization that in order to fit into the multifaceted machine that is our economy, I will have to be more creative, I will have to make my own way. I’m going to have to be my own boss. I can’t work for a reputable company. I’ve sent hundreds of resumes, to hundreds of companies with no response whatsoever.

  198. WrongfullyConvicted Says:

    For one, this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. Before you are arrested, you aren’t asked how you voted in the last election. Secondly, it doesn’t matter if you’re poor. I spent $25,000 on legal representation for my charges and lost my case in a jury trial. You would be surprised how easy it is to be convicted with no evidence. I think it’s a shame the way that some of these posters talk about felons. I would imagine that they are very friendly with felons, and are completely unaware of it. While I can understand wanting to protect employers, there needs to be an overhaul of the “human resources monster,” that consumes so many applicants. Felons lose more than most can imagine. I lost my employment, my driver’s license, 90 days of my freedom, lots of opportunity, etc. The state has denied me a real estate license after I paid for the class, passed the state exam, and sent in my application fee twice. They made a mistake the first time, and they feel their incompetence is my fault. I spent a year and a half studying pre-pharmacy only to find out that I can’t even get into a school of pharmacy.

    Something needs to be done. I don’t have the answers, but those without felonies could empathize a little with those that do.

  199. Disillusioned Says:

    Since the dawning of “Political Correctness,” the only group left for judgmental people to hate are convicted felons.

    They will never let go of that outlet for all of their anger and rage because then, the only outlet for their projected prejudices will be the parts of themselves that they hate, but are too weak and/or damaged to acknowledge and fix.

  200. Brian Says:

    When people like you write stupid shit like that do you even think? I have a non-violent felony for having residue on a pipe, I was 29. I am 31 don’t as much a drink anymore and as soon as an employer finds out I have a felony, they will not hire me. I cannot leave the country, let alone michigan. You are complaining about tax money helping get the records ex sponged, What about not being able to get a job and when my family cannot help me anymore, I will need all the state help I can get (welfare) I lost my paramedic license because of it to. Or you can email me at idiompost@gmail.com, I live at hall rd and van dyke and we can “talk” about it face to face, Because I am sick of people like you probably some fat disabled pig, who gets disability and medicad and food stamps and complains about taxes being taking out of your state check even if not, believe me I can tell you don’t make enough for it to be really making a difference, It’s not like they will go down anyway if they don’t do this. I bet your a republican asshole who would rather some corrupt politician got the money, send some money to Palin for some more close chump ass dork

  201. Brian Says:


  202. The kid Says:

    I am 22 years old and I am now facing becoming homeless all because I was visiting my cousin in an apartment he said was for his wild get togethers. not knowing he and his friends were selling crack I went to simply pick him up and take him home and guess what…. the police Raided the Apt with me inside. because the warrant stated the arrest of all black males in the Apt I was arrested for a crime I never did because some idiot had a gun there I was told to take a plead deal before the others because the last person to do so would be arrested for the gun and serve 2 years I said i am facing being homeless because its been three years now and I dont have a job I still have two years to go I have no way to get a job to pay for an expungement because NOBODY will hire felons. I lived with my mother for a while but the cost of me being there is burddening her I got an EBT card but she needs help paying the bills so its either get a job or get out

  203. Sarah Bradley Says:

    I am respectfully requesting that you consider the passage of any bill that would allow convicted felons of non-violent crimes that have paid their debt to society to have their constitutional rights back, such as voting, the right to be get an education in the medical field or any professional field, and to get a job in that field without discrimination. A good majority of these felons made a mistake for which they are being made to pay for the rest of their lives, and as a result cannot provide for their families or live a quality life in this the “United States of America”. Please support any bill to allow felons to be allowed their liberties back and within no longer than a 5-year period, have their records expunged of the felony. I don’t think there is anyone is this world that hasn’t made a mistake, and a life-long punishment of a felony charge that by having one denies you the right to vote or get a decent job for the rest of your life is in itself criminal. Being able to get a good job to support your family and feel good about yourself again will keep felons from going back to jail.

  204. Rachel Kenazi Says:

    There is a bill in Congress –HR 1529 that if passed would allow one time nonviolent felons get their records expunged. But we need help passing this bill. Please go to http://www.wedesearveourlivesback.com or change.org or join our support group at yahoo. Please google HR 1529 to learn more

  205. Rachel Kenazi Says:

    I am so sorry that website is http://www.wedeserveourlivesback. I made a typo.

  206. Ronny Says:

    I am a convicted “FELON” and unless you have had a personal ecounter with this situation you can’t imagine the feeling that follows life can never be the same. Jobs are lost as well as your productive live thaqt will never be you can never take your kids or grand kids hunting wich is a very theraputic and American thing to do as a family. All it takes is 1 time when your young or old to ruin it all nobody is perfect even you good persons who left comments that your so much better and how we felons don’t deserve a chance if you made a mistake 1 time and were stripped of your life for a period and never givin the chance to redeem yourself will be the day you will feel what we have to deal with and this is not who I am a “Felon” but who I will be labled and forced to live a life a crime only because not givin the chance to live normal with the same oppertunities a the next Human this is just my opinion of you good peoples life that since the age of 17 will never know because your worried about your money thanks for assisting in ruinning my life and others because you think you know something Sincerely yours the “FELON”!!!!!! http://s1.webstarts.com/GottaMakeMoneys/index.html

  207. Ronny Says:

    I have worked since I was a boy 15 and still work a min of 40hrs a week pay taxes more than most cause I’m a white male and don’t get a single thing from the state have 2 kids wich are completely taken care of by me and my wife and you think I shouldn’t get a handout from the government to clear my record so I can hunt and feel free in this Country but you think we can give illegal immagrants and blacks a hand out because of there race. I pay taxes and they should benefit me in some way as other who get everyday help don’t pay crap get it right AMERICAN and nobody is going to take my rights Felon or not I know What I am and who I am AMERICAN WHITE BOY USA Constitution you should take a look if you do like it get out of my Country!!!!!!!!!!!! Ronny A Tyler

  208. Judy Carl Says:

    My brother went to prison for drunk driving. He is a collage graduate, highly intelligent, motivated, and was a great employee in the maintenance/engineering field…never in trouble on the job. But he drove while drunk, hit another car, injured the driver and fled the scene. He served three years and came out vowing to be a better person. While in prison he lost his home, tools, and vehicle. Thanks to my husband and other brother, he now has a place to live and a vehicle to drive so he can search for work. Its been over a year now and every place that looks at his employment records says he has great experience, but either company rules or state/fed laws prohibit his hire. He could be self-sufficient, but he is now a burden on his family and society. Wake up legislators! Let people who want to work, WORK.

  209. james gaddy Says:

    Heres my situation in 1994 i got caught with a gun,in 2000 i was charged with domestic violence. With the amount of time that has passed there shouldn’t be anything to stand in my way.I’ve checked out the step program but was denied .Isent judge mathis an e-mail.I got character letters from my domestic violence victim&she is also the mother of my 13yr old son&we get along just fine. You legislators need to review your laws better cause there are a lot of good people who made mistakes dis there time&should not have there record be a reason for employers not to give them a fair chance.I want a better job so my child can have nice things&be proud of his father. Not for what he did,but for what he has done.

  210. West In MI Says:

    I’m 49, I did prison time for selling drugs. I have since changed my thought pattern and want to live a decent life(whats left of it). upon my release I did get a job making $8.00 an hour I now make $8.65 an hour, That was 5 years ago. the boss loves me because I’m a good worker and he knows I have to work to maintain what little I have and aside from that no one else will hire me, and I’m subject to more work than a slave. I get calls for jobs but once they find out I have a felony…all bets are off. I often wonder what were their thoughts before knowing I sold drugs 10 years ago. I know what I did was wrong and did my time as though it was not enough, tell me…should I still be punished for wanting to do now whats right WORK FOR LIVING.

  211. educatedfelon Says:

    Im an an educated, motivated felon who cant get a job. I was convicted of selling drugs when I was 19 (over 15 years ago). I have a degree but cant get a job. If I unable to get a job chances sooner or later i will resort to dealing drugs again (or some other crime).

    i do wanna do it but how am I suppose to survive. What about my kids? i know none of you “perfect” citizens care at one point does the past become the past. The felonies should prevent you from acquiring employment when the crime is relevant to the case ie, don’t let pedophiles work at schools (around kids period), dont let drugs convicts (such as me) work with drugs or in pharmaceutical settings, and dont let frauders work in retail or finance.

  212. educatedfelon Says:

    Oops I meant do NOT wanna do it!

  213. jonathon Says:

    im a convicted felon. i have a non-violent crime. my charge is probably the most dis honest charge in america. every day go out and search for a job. i put at least 5 applications in a day and no body contacts me back. i feel that the public is holding me personally responsible for my actions with out even letting me have the chance of them getting to know me

  214. Emmaline Sojo Says:

    Seeing that you have place a big amount of work into itWow what a post!

  215. Joe Says:

    People should be judged on a case by case basis.

    People make mistakes.

    All people should be able to earn their rights back.

  216. Diane Says:

    20 years ago I made the mistake if writing NSF checks and was convicted of a felony. I had always been able to find work until last year when I was “permanently laid off” Now I can’t find a job. I don’t think the Government should have to pay for me to expunge my record but I think the fac that this happened 20 yrs ago and I have never been in trouble since then should not stop me from being able to get a job.

  217. LU Says:

    I’m 33yrs-old & have felonies from 2001 for check fraud,3 checks to be exact,had a good job and then lost it when my son got sick with crohns in 2009. Now the taxes payers say i shouldn’t get any help,funny when i was paying taxes didnt seem to care where the money went casue it wasnt coming back to me. Now what i’ve done happen years ago,but now i cant get a job to save my life,my son will always have crohns & i’m a proud father that has to look @ him and know that cause of my stupid mistake i cant even help him get the meds he need’s when it’s time. So for people to say that tax payers shouldnt have to use their tax dollars,dont. But what about all the time i’ve paid taxes & now i’m using what i put into all those years of work. I’m a good person,but because of what i did years ago,im to suffer and my child to suffer the rest of my life,HELL even GOD is’nt that tough on us. GOD FORGIVES & GIVES US MANY CHANCES @ LIFE,BUT YET THIS WORLD FEEL’S WE DONT DESERVE BUT ONE. Expungement is something that i think we can use,not just in law but in life. How many times have any of us as someone to just give me a chance. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!

  218. Andrew Pelt Says:

    I FINALLY I got to read your article, there is definately a problem with your XHtml. Have you tried verifying it through W3? It could just be A theme problem though… Just thought I would warn you from one webmaster to another because I would hate to lose my traffic if I had an issue and didn’t notice.

  219. Rudy Hnilo Says:

    Thats fine if people dont want to help college graduate-non violent felons clean their criminal records up.I guess i’ll stay on welfare,cause thats all i can do with my degree.

  220. ME Says:

    This is why I’m a Democrat. you republicans are a bunch non forgiving people. People can change and deserve a second chance in life, what r they to do just be homeless, live on the street, die on the street. this makes me sick!!

  221. jesse Says:

    When a felon cant get a job he or she goes back to what they no crime so i think to avoid people getting hurt in crimes we as a people should at least try to guid the ones that want help in the right direction this is America land of the free but if you have a felon u might as well be an outsider .

  222. jesse Says:

    Give us a chance…………..

  223. gloria Says:

    this site is a joke. i’m looking for companies that hire someone with a felony and all i get is site after site that doesn’t relate to companies that hire felons. geeeeeez i am beginning to hate this damn computer

  224. Jack Doe Says:

    I used to be a good asset to a particular billion dollar plus company, a highly productive citizen who paid his share of income, property, and other taxes every year. Other than a mortgage, I had no other liabilities.

    Today, I am totally unproductive, a drain upon society as a convicted felon. I am no longer to able to be productive as I have been hobbled by a criminal record and can no longer obtain employment in my field and honestly, I don’t have the will to work for crumbs.

    I’m sure that there are hundreds of thousands like me, who have learned their lesson, paid their debt to society, and want a fresh start. Current law makes this impossible.

  225. Felonious 1 Says:

    How about this…..

    I lost my job in construction, could not find any other work since I had no skills excluding my construction skills. I have a family, 4 kids and a wife to support. I was sober for 10yrs and ended up homeless, I had nowhere to turn, the state wouldn’t help, we were desperate. I knew people who used narcotics and new I could make quick money, it got my family off the street and I ended up with a couple felonies and here I sit unable to be employed due to my felonies and their severity. Now what? Why bother going to college to change my profession when I cant be employed anyhow?

  226. James Says:

    I would just like to say that everyone makes mistakes. Just because you have never got in trouble, or never got caught doing you dirt doesnt make you better then any said person. Speaking as a convicted felon myself “nonviolent of course” i had spent time being around these other felons “violent cases too” and i have to say that most of them just wish to reestablish themselves back into society so they can be a honest earner/taxpayer like yourself. I understand that the more serious cases should never be expunged or even let free, but this is a basic problem with our justice system from day one. Maybe if you conduct your interviews in a better fashion, or more in depth. Making sure they are drug free, have no warrants, have a GED/ diploma will seriously cut down your chances of getting a bad apple out of the bunch. There is NOTHING you can do about the ones that have the said requirements above and are still in the criminal mindset. If that were so there would be NO crime at all, and you all know that is never going to happen. I feel a lot of you are going to disagree with me but that is because you are close minded and don’t believe in rehabilitation and giving a person who made a mistake a second chance. You cant fix without being understanding and close minded. Learn to give people a second chance, and after that its your call.

  227. John Says:

    I don’t think that the expungement of felony records should be the TAXPAYERS responsibility, but all of these so-called “conservatives” want to deny the one thing that for all their man made laws want to take away from these people, their right to live. This is still America, by all means learn who your employees are, but just because you haven’t been caught for the crimes you all have committed against each other doesn’t make you an innocent and model citizen, it makes you all cowards, hiding away from the truths that everyone does evil, however remote, we all break laws, whether from drunk driving and jay-walking to theft and physical violence, it’s all breaking laws no matter how small. Get used to it people, everyone is a criminal, felon or not, we are in AMERICA, the land of the brave and free, don’t like felons, then GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!

  228. shaun Says:

    Quite often defendants entire plea bargins to avoid jail time. This happens without any evidence being presented the truth is if you fight a charge you will face much more time than if you just sign a plea. Also while fighting a charge one might be incarcerated no being able to afford bail and may take a plea out of complete desperation. If an offender has remained Good for a number of years, and was not convicted of a hanieous crime they should have the right to remove such convictions from their record at their own expense. Criminal justice is ment to make an offender pay for a crime not so that everyone else can permantly see that they are a Felon. many times not guilty of the charges or commiting a very petty crime. People should beable to expunge traffic violations and any conviction that did not involve a victim for sure. those cases who do have victims should have to undergo further scrunity but should still have some sort of oppurtunity to prove that person is now a law abiding citizen. Being a felon does’nt make someone a non law abiding person or a criminal. Being a criminal(meaning not making mistakes but commiting crimes) makes someone a criminal. If i commited a crime 15 years ago but do not commit crime today im not a criminal. Many Felons live very eximplamantry lives following all laws better than the average citizen. Imaturaity should be forgiven. Should their be a record that i wet the bed when I was 5?

  229. Don Says:

    I am 36 yrs old, when I was 25, I worked for a super store, I made the choice to steal Baseball Cards and Video Games. I was a dumb kid without an understanding of how my actions would affect my entire life. I would give anything for a second chance. I know for a fact I would never recommit no matter waht happens. The larger problem is this, we have no choice or help unless we have the funds to do so, how about a loan program, Lawyers for free to help. I can guarantee this, if you would give non violent felons a second chance and job assistance, you would see the welfare payrolls fall to all time lows. Get people back to work, enjoying life again, and things will change.

    Sadly, I have an embezzlement charge that is now roughly 10 yrs old, I cannot go hunting with my 12 year old, I cannot work for the same government I pay for, I do not have the same opportunities as people who NEVER GOT CAUGHT! It is a fact that almost everyone has done something in life that could constitute a crime, and people should be forgave with a second chance. I would love for a second chance, or help getting one!

  230. ryan Says:

    I feel that the world has become so caught up with the wrong idea of what a fellon really is. I have four felonies and not one of the is violent. I havent broken the law or gotten into any trouble after i was released from jail. I pay my taxes just like every other non criminal in the world. the only diffence is that i have to pay for what mistakes i made when i was 17 (2004) and will be forced pretty much to live in poverty because god forbid i get a second chance. I ran from the police twice and got caught in an abanded house so i got two flee and eludes and a B&E into an abandon house. I got charged with recieving and conceling stolen property too because my “friends” left a stolen car in my possestion. So because i made some stupid mistakes trying to be cool when i was younger i cant find a job or live in any apartment that isnt run down and fucking nasty because I am a felon. This country was founded by people that got tired of being treated like shit. did we forget this? we have sat back and let everything we have faught for just go back to the way it used to be. I can tell you that when i meet someone ill get along with them great and have a good working relationship with them up untill i finally feel comfortable to tell them i am a felon, then it completley flips and bits me in the ass everytime. I am so sick of the way we are treated. sure there are bad people out with bad records and even no records but there are even more people out there that have made mistakes and want to put them past them and move on. I cant even get a job at mcdonalds because they would rather hire someone who is not a felon because they might flip burgers better then a felon. so this is bullshit. quit being stuck up and irrogant and let us move on. youd find out that we would prolly out work out preform anyone without a felony in a good job because we would apperciate it more because were forced to work shitty jobs for the rest of our lives. (unless were michel vick)

  231. A Lazar Says:

    I have two felonies for selling weed 8 years ago and believe me life has been very difficult because of MY choices. Getting a degree didn’t help nor has time aided me in any way however even I think that it shouldn’t be the governments job to pay for what I did. If the government wants to say “Hey, we are going to make what you did no longer illegal and therefore your record is wiped clean,” I would probably shit skittles but seeing as that is not happening I will just continue to work with lawyers on my own dime and hope for the best.

  232. A Lazar Says:

    Go to the same place where they issue unemployment benefits in your state. In Michigan the nice lady gave me a list of companies who hire offenders. I am not sure what “Hires Offenders” means exactly but its better than robbing armored trucks or something.

  233. t6865j1 Says:

    I’m a convicted felon. I hung out with my uncle when i was young and knowingly hid some things for him that were stolen. When i was caught with them our small town prosecutor said he would drop all charges against me (my first and onlly offense) if i testified against my uncle. My uncle would have went to prison, and that would have broke my grandmothers heart….i couldnt do it, i love my grandmother very much. Now i’m 46 years old. To be honest i don’t tell employers i have that felony. If they check and i don’t get the job, thats better than me not even getting the application looked at. The problem is the umbrella felons are thrown under. The crimes vary to much for everyone to be labeled the same. I was hired at Chrysler right after my crime and worked for there for 15 years with perfect attendance. They appreciated me for my hard word work and ambition. I left because of the economy. I’m not the person i was when i was young and committed the crime. I’m not crying because i’m a felon because i always strive to make the best of any situation. Alot of people don’t know what they are talking about either. I do vote. I have registered guns. I showed all my probation discharge papers at the local police station and they restored my right to own a pistol. Of course the laws between the state and government conflict. The government says i can’t own one. Government, laws, people arent perfect. So i’ll protect my family and deal with the consequences afterward. I have a friend that was out in the country 20 miles from home…..he pulled over and went down in the ditch and relieved himself. A policeman drove up saw him and he was charged and is now on the michigan sex offenders list. Laws arent perfect…..people arent perfect. And to those people that are so quick to judge felons without knowing or thinking about the possible circumstances are also far from perfect! So….to all you productive felons…hang in there! Jesus is coming back and he’s going to clear the records of all the riteous! And i’m sure alot of these judgmental people won’t be a part of that crowd!

  234. Dalton Says:

    You know what I was conviced of something in the great state of michigan for something i never even done and i went into the courts and figured if i just tell the truth i would be ok , well for all of you who like to judge people I WAS WRONG DEAD WRONG ! after telling the truth i was still conviced and sentenced 2 to 20 years in your state prison and for what ? I DIDNT DO ANYTHING and im not the only one sure most say i didint do it but im here to tell you its all behind me now and im still here to tell you I DIDINT DO IT !!!!! so now i have a Felony on my record and cant find a job does that make me a bad guy i ask ? NOPE SURE DON’T but in your eyes it does because your the stupid people who have broken the law one time or another and just never got caught … put yourself in my shoes for once .. suppose your convicted of a crime and you didint do you you go to prison and get out with nothing but a bus ticket and 10.00 to your name what do you do you cant get a job you have no home you cant get to work because if you find work it might be way on the other side of town and you can sleep casue you have no home you cant eat casue you have no money and you cant also work casue you have nowhere to rest your sleepy eyes… so not think about it ok i use to own a towning company a power washing company and also owned 4 homes all fixer ups andi also was raising 2 children on my own this life i was building wasnt only for me it was for my kids so they would have something and wouldnt have to struggle in life when it comes there time to get out into the world but it took one person to come into my life that screwed it all up and it was a customer of mine not even a freind but the crime was pinned on me and he went free .. so now i say to you where is the justic in that and why should i still have nothing in life when i worked 7 days a week before all of this happened and now i cant even shovel shit for a living … well you knwo what i say the hell with michigan and so called perfect people you all can kiss my white felon ass for all i care the felons at least stand up and be real unlike tou selfish bastards who hide behind a comeputer talking all your shit… my kids were suppose to have dreams and i was gonna make it happen for them but now they grew up having nothing ,nothing at all and have to work so hard just to make ends meet … michigan justice system sucks all they do is out for your money and what they can take from you .. now that telling it like it is ..it’s called FREEDON OF SPEECH .. there is no freedom anymore in the u.s you wont give a felon a job mowing your yard but you will let a mexican who isn’t suppose to be here in our county the job … you people are jokes in yourself

  235. Dalton Says:

    p.s ANYMORE TO SAY ???? DIDINT THINK SO and just to add your not reformed in prison you just sit and rot but the upside is why your busting your butts out of prison im inside private luxary vacation resort with swimming pools ,tennis , basketball , baseball, soccer heck we had it all inside so for a man who never had a vacation , i wanna thank you idoits who gave me a well deserved one prison isnt all that bad its when you come out that sucks casue i have to deal with assholes like you who think your better then me when infact i can do everything alot better … bye bye time for michigan to give me my pay every month that you jackasses dont want me to earn so hurry and ge back to your JOBS im looking to get a pay raise soon are you ?

  236. lawyerforyou Says:

    love all the stupid people on here. lack of knowledge from all area’s on this matter. For all of you guy’s thinking your so called hard earned tax pay is being used for this , your stupid.. the cost for person to expunge a felony is not cheap by any means and do not concern you.. The court will obtain there $ through the cost’s of the felon. ever herd of court cost.. I see nothing wrong with earning a second chance. everyone can find change in one’s life except those who don’t think one can. they will stay the same.. just be glade they will not tax you for being impulsive and stupid.

  237. Second chance sounds good Says:

    I was 18 with 2 children when i was convicted of a class 6 embezzlement. before you ask, i knew the 16 year old who robbed the store i worked at, i used to baby sit his kid cousin while he ripped the streets. He barged in the store one night at gun point and went for the money. I still to this day don’t know if the gun was real, but i know how much money was in the register and $297 and some change was not worth me taking a chance. After the police did their “thing” what ever it is they do, they never contacted me. in fact

    the boys aunt, out of all people, knocked on my door the following night and gave me the money. after i counted it i asked where was the rest of it to give it to my boss, and she said he used it to re up,( to buy more drugs) an argument and a fight later i told her i never wanted to see none of them again. in fact i went to the police and explained what had just happened.

    I got arrested, and charged a class 6 embezzlement for not returning the money to my boss. go figure. I payed Dan Miller $2,700 for that. As if its not enough my ex husband and i made an agreement with him to pay off the remaining balance by installing insulation and dry wall in his garage.

    That was my first time standing in front of a judge, and its been my last. Since then ive gone to school, started my own business, because i cant get employed anywhere even with my education. Had my rights restored, so on and so on. It been 9 since my years since my conviction i think ive payed enough.

    as far as taxes go; if as felon you lose your right to chose your leader and you lose your voice, then why are you being forced to pay them? (just a little sinicism 🙂 Its unfair.

    Hell ive seen illegal aliens get a decent paying job and not pay a single cent in tax, they have no voice in fact nothing. And i have seen a businesses hire illegal aliens instead of the family man with a 5-10year old felony, because of that felony! ( not to mention that some illegal aliens flee their countries because of some crime they committed over there) at least with this felon you know what the story is.

    On a serious note: Now once you have restored your rights, then and only then, should a felon pay taxes.

    I believe that if it has been 10+ years, NOT 5 YEARS, but 10+years since your ONE TIME NON VIOLENT OFENCE, and if you’ve shown progression in your life, with no DUI’S, within 10+ years then yes you should receive complete absolution, to help this individual become a more productive citizen.10+ years is a long penance, and time to make a change.

    I do not think that taxpayers should pay for this in fact it should be granted/given to the individual the same way they would ask for a restoration of their rights, with all the paperwork and thorough investigation.

    If i offend some one sorry, dint mean to, i’m just looking for the same justice system that once punished me for a mistake i made once to serve me justice, so that i can move on with my life and maybe help change yours.

  238. james william wingett III Says:

    if your able to work you should be allowed to work., if the shoe fits wear it., if the laws dont able me to work the the laws should pay my bills. every human should have the same chance to happyness.,, the laws allows the employer not to hire a felon,whether or not he or she is able to do the job. i dont want to hide what i did but it shouldnt hender me 20 years later to lose a job i worked for 9 years just becouse all the sudden a routen background check is done ,and found a crime i did when i was 17. eaven though the employer knew 9 years ago i had it,,

  239. pamela Says:

    I believe everyone deserves a second chance

  240. Eben Pagan Guru MAsterclass Says:

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  241. Aaron Terry Says:

    What every one on here does not understand is it is not always the business owners who makes the decision not to hire some one. I know this as a convicted felon, B&E of a business, and a previous business owner. My insurance company would only cover me for the insurance, but not any other felons. What felon has $300-$500 laying around? (If they are actually trying to straighten out their life.) I agreed with both the felons and inkslwc, there should be second chances; although, it should be the EMPLOYERS, not the insurance companies, choice and the felon should pay most if not all of the cost for expungement. Did we make the choice to do what we did? YES! Have we paid for it, after being released completely? YES! Are there other factors that may have been involved? YES! Will we do a crime again? MAYBE!! It’s our choice in life what we do or don’t!!
    That being said. The laws are so messed up in this country that we need to go back and completely redo the books. It’s still a law that “when released from prison you are to receive a horse, a hundred dollars and a rifle” (not sure if federal or only state law), but try it. They arrest you right outside the gates for felon in possession of a firearm. The current Judicial System is a part of the problem not the solution. Before we can really help this country we need to disassemble what we have find out what works, use it and what doesn’t get rid of it. Like politicians getting paid $174,000/ year and “not making enough to pay bills” and soldiers in Iraq only making $38,000/ year. Until then we will all just keep arguing over what is right and wrong with everything and making excuse for why we can’t band together to change it instead of complaining about it.

    Personal note to inkslwc: Under $100,000/ year, how much? Most people I know live on $20,000/ year or less. There is so much poverty in this country that if you are over the poverty level you should be ecstatic. That is the real problem with the crime rate in America. When a drug dealer, working 20 hrs. / week, makes 10 times more than the person working 60 hrs. / week and your education, back ground, color, or neighborhood limits your choices. What are you to do? Can people rise above their circumstances, yes, but until we can completely do away with bigotry in all forms that will continue to be difficult if not impossible. Thank you all for listening.

  242. Here I Stand Says:

    Some of the comments are so sad and yet the harsh reality of life..In America…2 all those that made the mistakes in their lives keep your heads high…Your time 2 shine will come again….2 the character Uncle Sam you are one heck of a debater and funny as heck….ROTHFL!!… 2 Inkslwc …i think it’s safe 2 say you wouldn’t believe how many folks have broken laws and gotten away with it ….you would surprised that most and/or these so called honest John employers have done crimal acts 2 build their companies ….is fair too say these employers should be honest about how they achieved goals just as they ask of their
    employees ..not eveybody that ask of you are saints themselves…..2 proamerican123 becareful what you call folks…..that person/persons could be you….These so called restricted rules have been broken numerous times by those on higher grounds….as well as those who are being locked away for the same rules broken by those that inforces them……That’s like punishing your child for lieing and than turn around and teach them too lie by saying Santa Claus is real…..Double standards isn’t it…….

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  244. Here I Stand Says:

    Channel 2 news just proved my point about these so called honest John employers…..a man embezzled 350 million dollars from hard working people…..hey proamerican123….b4 u pass judgement on those that made mistakes in their lives…..you should pay more attention to the one’s you think are honest……

  245. Here I Stand Says:

    Crime has no face…..it has no color….it can be repeated by those that live a life of crime as well as those whom you would never thought would do so…….now there’s something too rant about……no one is perfect and second chances is a good way too prove that some people can change

  246. JoeBlow Says:

    Heres another sad fact that many are not talking about. What about the impact our felonies have on our children? My son wants to learn how to shoot……Well sorry kid, you parent has messed up in the past so until you move out you are out of luck. Where I live now firearms are a big part of life, many of his friends shoot but sorry, just one more activity he cant participate in, just like me, even though he has done nothing wrong. Whether violent or non violent, if you dont get life why pay for life, there should be a cap on the time you are punished for your wrong doing.

  247. Travis Says:

    Pro- American for a supposed college graduate you do come across as awful damn stupid. I hope that you rot in hell for being so judgmental of these people. If you would of paid attention in college psychology class you would realize that behavior is learned and that your surroundings or environment that you grew up in goes a long way in dictating what kind of person you become. It is just hard for me to believe that a well educated person such as yourself can be so stupid. I mean really grow up and stop the name calling, act your age.

  248. mark Says:

    funny how most of you are ready to throw the first stone.i made a mistake 4 1/2 years ago (drug possession). for 4 years now i have done nothing but turn my life around. in minnesota im enrolled in college majoring in chemical dependency counclor. not only do i admit to my mistake but i take full responsibility for it. here in minnesota i cant even get a job at a fastfood restaurant. most if not all that i know give up because of people like yourselves who dont allow someone to correct their life.i never stole or hurt anyone.never done anything violent towards others.my entire life i was in the carpenters union till the day threw it all away.honestly why wouldnt you support someone who is trying to do the right thing. you support someone who sits on their ass and collects welfare.

  249. Jimmy Says:

    Dear Mr. President and Members of Congress

    A federal or state felony conviction is forever. There is no appeal, there are no second chances and there are few if any real opportunities for a fresh start by an ex-offender.

    Thousands of young men and women have been convicted of a Federal or state Felony and have completed the punishment decreed by the court. Yet, regardless of the sentence handed down by the courts and having “paid their debt to society”; they have also being handed a hidden life sentence that was not the result of any judicial proceeding. There is currently no appeal process for this life sentence.

    Most citizens believe that when someone who made a mistake has completed the punishment decreed by the court, that person has “Paid Their Full Debt to Society” and are thus free to resume their lives as they were before. Nothing is further from the truth. Under current Federal law, someone convicted of a federal felony will suffer the collateral consequences and lifetime stigma of the conviction, regardless of the magnitude of the offense. This stigma has become a civil death sentence for many.

    In our judicial system, the magnitude of the offense determines the degree of punishment. The collateral consequences suffered upon completion of an offender’s court ordered punishment is the same for all. Under federal law, the post conviction treatment of a non-violent offender is the same as that of someone who may have committed the most egregious of violent offenses. Some non-violent first offenders are only sentenced to periods of probation yet they must suffer the same post conviction consequences as someone who committed a much more serious violent crime. This is not justice.

    A first time, non-violent offender who has paid their full debt deserves a second chance, a fresh start. They deserve an opportunity to earn their lives back. These people are not “hardened criminals.” Many if not most of them are quite ordinary people who have made a bad decision. They know it, they take full responsibility for their actions and they are full of remorse for the pain that they have caused to their families and society. Many are so called “white collar” offenders who had very good jobs before they made a mistake. Even someone like Martha Stewart fits this category. However, unlike Ms. Stewart most of these people do not have a merchandizing empire to fall back on. Most will never be able to regain their previous position. They are disenfranchised in too many ways to enumerate here.

    There is much rhetoric about how much is being done to rehabilitate those who have committed a crime. People in the justice system talk about how much is being done to prepare the ex-offenders for their return to society. These are hollow, meaningless words when the reality is that we do everything possible to hamper previous offenders from regaining a productive place in society. Then we raise a hue and cry about how high the recidivism rate is.

    Expungement legislation has been introduced to the House of Representatives in every session of Congress since the year 2000. Many members of the current Congress have co-sponsored this legislation yet not one bill has ever made it out of committee. Please do not allow this to happen again. I am asking that you Mr. President and the members of Congress support and pass H. R. 2449 “the fresh start act of 2011” sponsored by Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennesse. This bill is a both a human and humane piece of legislation. The positive impact of the legislation is incalculable. It is only right and just that federal law allow former offenders the ability to lead productive lives without the stigma of their conviction haunting and handicapping them for the rest of their lives.

    The concept of “permanent punishment” with no hope of restoration for a non-violent first offender is void of any of the commonly held concepts of fairness. This bill is not, and you must not treat it as, a partisan issue. It is not Democrat/Republican, Conservative/Liberal or Black/White. Rather it is simply doing the right thing. Compassion and mercy should not be viewed as being “soft on crime.” Please take immediate action. Add your support and pass this most worthy bill.

    As a voter I would like to see this passed.

    Thank you
    Sincerly: Tim Wernke

  250. Paul Says:

    All points are well made. However, if a non-violent felon is qualified for a position why should they be discriminated against? If the individual is found guilty while in the employ of a company then there are consequences. But the way it stands a person, many people don’t get a second chance for re-entry into society. There are many people that have done terrible things and either covered it up or didn’t get caught. That’s the one to worry about. Most people who have been caught and done the time just want to become a viable citizen. But with no options a person become a statistic of recidivism. As far as guns. Well, if it’s a violent felon, I understand the reluctancy. But not for non-violent felons. The second amendment speaks for itself. That human rights.

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  255. Daniel Dillon Says:

    Seems to me the benefits are obvious of helping a criminal get a job and re-enter the workforce, to become a taxpaying citizen himself. Anybody is capable of doing anything at any time. Seems like if a person has cleaned up his act for 5 years plus done his time, he’s paid for his crime and should no longer be discriminated against The community would be better off with these people back on tax-rolls, contributing, dah! If we don’t help them,we’re encouraging crime, their only source of income! Rehabilitation can work!

  256. Rob Says:

    I have 2 felonies. I was young and dumb and got caughht selling drugs. But now im older , and have done the time for it. Ive completed my parole and have been a functioning part of my community for over 3 yrs now. I still get shitty results from job hunting..the only reason i got into where im at is bc i had a family member that helped me.
    It is really crappy that we (felons) cant get a break. I think employers should look at what has happened since the conviction.. Ive changed (not saying i am a total angel but who is ) and i feel i deserve a chance to get a decent job , but that will never happen unless i can expunge my record (which i cannot afford and prolly wont be able to ever!!!!) shitty deal no matter what..

  257. missy Says:

    been there done that- seeing as how you have two you can forget about it. legally we are are only allowed to get one felony expunged. go figgure.

  258. missy Says:

    and i hear ya the work force does not have a felony classification as to what kind of felony it was as well. myself non-violent i bought some grocieries for my kids with a check that had bounced off of my OWN account. counts as technically two felonies btw no expungement. they were hungry what was i supposed to do let them starve? i had exhausted the “help” from the agencies. and could not get on welfare because at the time we were homeless. now 11 years later, my bad, omg, terrible, unconcievably heighnous, crime still, does not go unpunished. have not even recieved so much as a parking ticket since then.. and still to this day cannot get a job!! yes i am in college yes i have finished high school, yes i have my own buisness. it does not however cover teenage needs and our bills! good luck out there!!

  259. brittany harness Says:

    When I was 5 months pregnant with my daughter my then bf beat an tortured me for the better part of 5 hours. He was 268 lbs I was 130lbs. The fight esculated to a point he had me in a choke hold and off the ground. Whenche realesed me I grabbed a pearing knife off the counter and stabbed him in the arm. He then left and went to the police station. Without question I was charged

  260. brittany harness Says:

    When I was 5 months pregnant with my daughter my then bf beat an tortured me for the better part of 5 hours. He was 268 lbs I was 130lbs. The fight esculated to a point he had me in a choke hold and off the ground. Whenche realesed me I grabbed a pearing knife off the counter and stabbed him in the arm. He then left and went to the police station. Without question I was charged with felonious assult. Ferndale police wouldn’t even take me to the hospital to documentvmy bruises or check on the health of my baby. I was working as a home health aide at the time. Long story short I lost my license and was incouraged to take a plea. To save myself from a possible conviction that would have resultedvin prison time. I’m now a violent felon who couldn’t find a job to save ger life.

  261. God loves his children Says:

    For those of you who want to point fingers and judge people who have made a mistake/mistakes and even paid for it through imprisonment, probation, and money, don’t think one day that can’t be you who gets caught. Not one person on this planet hasn’t committed at least one crime. Hypocrites! One day you will know first hand how wrong it is to punish people for life, when you get caught committing your crime.

    I have far more respect for the people who have paid time for their crime than for you cowards who never admit your faults.
    ps, I have no criminal record, but I could have, if I got caught in my younger years. I’m lucky just like the rest of the population who were fortunate not to get caught cause we would be suffering like the rest of those people who for the majority are just as good of people as anyone.

    I own multiple businesses (real estate and a restaurant) and in fact I favor hiring people who have in some point in their life made a mistake or so. In reality, “nobody” is perfect; that’s right buddy…you’re the only fool who believes you are.

  262. Melissa Says:

    God loves his children – thank you 🙂 I appreciate your post. I have been following this thread for a little over a year now. Hoping for a change that i am affraid will (sadly) never happen. I have a felony record. One felony over 10 years ago. still having trouble finding gainfull employment. Yes i have went back to school. It does not help. Employers still turn a blind eye to any and i do mean any person with a “past”. I would love to contact you on a possible employment venture however… willing to post a direct email? I have over 8 years of hospitality/customer service expeirence. Some management training. Front and back of house management and yes will even wash dishes!! If you are serious about having the placement and hiring abilities that you do. Please leave a response it will go directly to my email thank you.

  263. junior Says:

    hello my name is Brandi. i was convicted of a crime when i was 16yrs. my crime was dwelling on a house. i was not trying to hurt anyone i was not trying to still anything i was trying to get in a place that i paid for cause the person i thought love me was only using me to get the place then they put me out in the cold in a city i did not know anything about no phone no car and it was winter time. there was like 100 dollars worth of damages done to the door . when the police investigated me i told them the truth right then an there. i rec a lawyer that was bestfriends with the prosecutor so he was not trying to help the judge realize what they was doing an sent my home.I’m now 24yrs old never been in trouble i don’t smoke nor drink. I’m a very intelligent woman but no one will hire me because of that felony an all i want is a job to take care of myself i don’t have family nor friend to help it just me so i think they should give someone that has made one mistake because where people that need to live just you.

  264. Stephanie Shilling Says:

    My name is Stephanie Shilling, I have a past that in that time i recieved felonies. I did not get my diagnose of Anti-social personality disorder until 10 years of hell. I have a forgiving God who know about our sinful nature. I have changed in very positive ways. I can not get a job to be a normal person in society because of my felonies. I have to rely on Your tax dollars to feed myself and my son. Michigan Department of Human services MSHDA, HUD churches and my community all know of my change, they are so supportive that when I filed a non-profit ( I did myself without a lawyer) they gave to my publ;ic charity . A New Creation! Some people have felonies and for the rest of thier life have to pay and use state tax dollars to live. Would you rather support change and felonies lifted or let felons keep recieving state aide? It is much easier in prison , food, clothing and shelter are free! Some people just commit crime or use drugs to go back to all they know, where is the life rehabilitation? STOP YOUR IGNORANCE

  265. Here I Stand Says:

    4 those of you that believe second chance is a waste of THE HONORABLE JUDGE GREG MATHIS is living proof that people can change after making mistakes… RANT !!! about that…..

  266. Here I Stand Says:

    typo…^^^^ a waste….. not a waste of

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  277. BMT Says:

    If a person do a crime they should do the time. Once they’ve done there time they should have the right to a job. The only problem I have against felons is my tax dollars paying for an exspungement. I’m sure we all have secrets and from a doctor to a judge and in between all have done wrong or cheated to get where we are today we just didn’t get caught. So allow a felon a career after all there is no more pension for career jobs anyway. I’d rather a felon to have there own income than to keep breaking in my home stilling everything I worked hard for and earned. What we all need to be doing is fighting for our pensions back rather than a felon having a job. Its like our politicans put out a theory to see if its going to draw attention from the people. Like should a felon have a second chance well we the people have to look at this theory I mean look behind it to see what the politicians are saying. I want felons to have a job it would give them something to do other than target me or you. But the hell with arguing about a felon getting money lets start fighting about our career pensions that we were promised once we the people get a degree.

  278. BMT Says:

    Oh! I forgot its not about us noncriminal people its about felons. Well felons fight for us and our future since politicians don,t want felons to work. You have nothing to do but rob still and kill for a living anyway. (R.Fiacano) if criminals worth fighting for fight for our pensions back make a name for your self by helping all and not stereotyping criminals futures. But the people that strived to get where they are today. Our futures depend on how our lively hoods turn out. And worring about a criminal job my children want a chance at a future to. Not only is criminals struggling to survive but we the people are to by robing Peter to pay Paul. God Bless All.

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  282. stephanie shilling Says:

    Stephanie Shilling- great now our county jail is building another larger one to house even more prisoners, that are transported to other larger county jails, and bringing back the dollar. It cost $35.00 a day to house one inmate. Then a bill is sent out and %99. do not ever pay and no law to make them. So now even my, 6 time felon, tax dollars is going to pay for a new jail. In 2009 after a few years of my crime free life I decided to start the process of opening a non-profit to house alternative low criminal inmates. Many days of mental and emotional sweat has been put into this. I have been juggling my home life as a single mother, college, work experience, battling to receive child support, and much more. In opening a transitional home the cost will be cut in half and our tax dollars will be lowered, this will create new jobs and give some rehabilitation to a hopeful person. The convicted residents will attend life learning classes, job search in collaboration with Michigan Works, and Michigan Council of Governments. If I can change so can another willing person. The resident would have to job search and pay their portion of rent. In return success is the result. So I fundraiser, I support, bring awareness, and the door is open for opportunity. The tax dollar is going to be used anyway, so why not help a criminal become a productive member in society.

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  284. Betrayed Says:

    Problem with this assessment is why there are 1 in 6 people with felony records. The system is backlogged by incoherent, frivolous cases. Then those people are strong-armed, manipulated, or distressed enough to lose faith in the corrupt system, which only chases dollars, not caring about innocence or guilt. Yes it’s pathetic, it’s pathetic Michigan as a state must racketeer it’s citizens.

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