Royal Canadian Mounted Police TASER Man in Vancouver, “Resulting” in His Death

OK, here’s a link to a news story about it – if you want the whole video, go to YouTube and look it up (my apologies, I had originally triedto embed a CBC news story about it, but it didn’t work, but I thought it had, so I lost the link.  Here’s my alternate video clip):

Here’s my thoughts: should the RCMP tried to get an interpreter?  Yes.  Was he a threat?  Maybe – he was obviously not with it – he was throwing things in an airport, and with today’s threats, you can’t take chances.

Now – the big question, did the TASER kill him (as many anit-TASER advocates claim)?  NO!  This is what really bugs me – people who are against police brutality are using this as evidence for their cause against TASERs, but what they don’t realize is that a TASER would kill the man instantly.  If you are electrocuted, you don’t die minutes later, you die instantly of cardiac arrest (and it’s obvious that he didn’t, because he was TASERed twice).

My theory is that he was already way to stressed (he’s throwing stuff in an airport – something’s wrong) – and the arrest put him over the edge, leading to a heart attack.  Are the police partially to blame?  Yes.  Is it murder, no.  So although I don’t defend the RCMP’s actions, I don’t think they did anything worthy of being criminally charged, and I DEFINITELY think that TASERs should still be used.

Done Ranting,

Ranting Republican

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29 Responses to “Royal Canadian Mounted Police TASER Man in Vancouver, “Resulting” in His Death”

  1. Jade Says:

    How did officers handle situations in the days when tasers did not exist? So no I do not agree with you that tasers should be used! In fact the Canadian government has now enacted an investigation on tasers and may consider getting rid of them. One thing is for sure concerning the Vancouver Airport incident, 4 police officers, which by the way we call the finest because they are in the RCMP, should be able to easily manhandle one person without electrocuting him to death!!

    Also this man had flown in from Poland, meaning he had passed airport security and screening hence it is impossible that he have a weapon on him. The police tasered an unarmed man for throwing things. If you read all the facts you’ll understand why he was throwing things in the first place. In fact changes are being implemented at the Vancouver Airport so that non-english speaking arrivals arent stuck 10 hours waiting…

    I think the police should be charged with manslaughter and most likely utimately will be. In terms of your theory, maybe he didnt die on the first taser strike, but maybe it’s the second one 50,000volts x 2 = 100,000 volts.

    Also once he had been tasered twice, one cop sticks his knee on the guys neck which is totally unecessary since he is already immobilized by the 2 taser jolts. Maybe the knee on the neck stopped his breathing? In that case the charge should be no less then murder for that RCMP officer.

  2. Canadian Citizen Says:

    Do not travel to Vancouver, Canada. This is worse that the SARS in toronto. They did not even try and talk to him. Then they covered it up saying he was aggressive, bullshit. They were only caught by the video they tried to keep from leaking. It’s a messed up place stay away!

  3. inkslwc Says:

    Before TASERs – they shot people. I guarantee you that TASERs have saved more lives than they’ve “killed” people.

    Second – the second TASER didn’t do it either – he would’ve died instantly. It’s a simple scientific fact.

    Third – I don’t know how much about electricity you know (not meaning to be disrespectful – I just don’t know how much you remember from high school/college Chem. class.), but it’s the amount of amps that kills/injures you, not volts. From what I could find, the TASER X26 (I’m not sure if this is what the RCMP used, but it’s possible) uses .0021 Amperes – .001 produces pain, and .005 is the point at which it can become lethal. In high school – our teacher allowed us to be shocked with a Wimshurst generator if we wanted to be, which produces tens of thousands of volts, but extremely low Amps, so the harm was relatively low (although one’s tongue, nose, ear would still hurt for about 15 minutes after).

  4. Drake Says:

    Did the taser kill him? No the RCMP officers on his neck and back did. After being hit with a taser you need to be able to breath rapidly. The RCMP are taught this in training. A person can not breath with the weight of one man on their neck and another on their back. I do not believe the RCMP intentionally tried to kill him but they did. Wether it was from inexperience, or that they wanted to show their force, they killed him.

    If you listen to the video, you can hear one officer was asking if they had the taser ready before they even got to the secure area. This should give you an idea of what was planned.

  5. inkslwc Says:

    I agree that they should’ve been more careful / less careless – my point here though is that everybody’s blaming the TASER. But even to say it was the neck isn’t a sure thing – he’s obviously WAY too overwhelmed and it could’ve been a heart attack. Does anybody know if an autopsy was done?

    And what do you mean by “what was planned” – they were planning on TASERing him, not killing him.

  6. Sam Says:

    I love Canada and respect the RCMP, police, the Immigration officers and the Custom officers. But that is 25 years ago.
    These years, the Vancouver police, RCMP, Immigration offices in the airport and the custom officers make us feel disgusted because their attitude.
    Every time I traveled and back home, they always asked too many questions and some of the questions even touch my personal confidential, I mean what they ask me to fill in the custom declare card and I all tell them all, if they don’t trust me, just one word and check me out, why ask too many questions and treat people as a guilty person ? I never have the same treatment in all the the countries I traveled, but when I am home, I was treated as a guilty people and a petty thief, that is all because the offices in Canada now become more bureaucrat, the respected officers are no more exist.

  7. Drake Says:

    They should not have even been planning to taser him before they even walked into the secure room. The RCMP are suppose to be neutral and unbias. They did not follow any of the guidelines set out for them. They were planning on tasering him before fully understanding the situation and trying to control it. If 4 RCMP officers can not not wrestle one man to the ground then there is a serious problem with them. Wether they wanted to try the taser out or they figured it would just make their job easier, I don’t know. The point is they had several other options to try first. I guess it was easier for them to walk in and taser the man in 28 seconds than to try and find an interpreter, to calm him down, try to wrestle him to the ground or even use batons. Basically they took the easiet and fastest solution they could come up with and a man is dead.

  8. inkslwc Says:

    Drake, how do you figure that batons are a better solution than a TASER?

  9. Drake Says:

    One The batons do hurt more but have killed less people

    Two Under the rules of engagement the baton is to used before the use of the tazer. Even pepper spray comes before the tazer. The officals that set these rules out are trying to ensure people live.

    17 deaths linked to taser use since 2003, have not heard of a death nor could I find one linked to baton use from the RCMP in the same period.

  10. Sam Says:

    I support what Drake said, if 4 RCMP can’t even wrestle one man then what kind of martial arts they trained in the school ? or they don;t even know how to use it ? Or they never pass the training ?

  11. inkslwc Says:

    Like I said – I’m not saying the RCMP acted 100% correctly – but it wasn’t the TASER that killed him. And I’d have to think that pepper spray in an airport isnt’ a good idea.

  12. Pacco Says:

    Has to die of an instant Cardiac Arrest? Putting that many volts through a human being alters the electic signals in the nodes found in the heart that control the beat of the heart.
    What killed him? A heart attack caused from the stress of being arrested? or was it the stress of being arrested after being in an airport for nine hours?
    lets use logic! 5o,ooo volt shocks are going to affect the body alot more then hormones released due to stress.

  13. Drake Says:

    The taser was a contributing factor of his death. Not a result of its direct use. The same as a 100 foot fall will not kill a person, it is the impact. The 100 foot fall is a contributing factor to a death but not the cause of the death. As is the person who pushed someone from a 100 feet did not kill the person but contributed to the death. The taser caused abnormal heart rythms and the officers on his back and neck prevented him from being able to breath properly. There are many factors that caused the death. It was not just one item but multiple. The taser is not completely exhonorated from the death. There are multiply factors in a death and the role of each action combined caused the death.

  14. inkslwc Says:

    Volts do NOT kill people! It’s the amperes! Why is it that you people don’t realize this – it’s a simple middle school principle.

  15. Drake Says:

    I understand that it is amprage that kills you but your heart can be stopped with 50 – 150mA. You can have 1A go through your leg and it will not kill as long as the path of least resistance is not through a vital organ. When you are hit with a taser it is in the chest, you are putting amprage through vital organs. In return you get unusal heart rythms/flutters. Now put the weight of a large man on the musles around the heart, the heart will not be able to correct itself causing a heart attack. Thus causing death. I don’t know how to put it more simple than this. I am not saying the taser caused the death but it did contribute to the death.

  16. inkslwc Says:

    The TASER has .0021 mA – and the man was already incredibly stressed before the arrest. He probably would’ve died just from the stress of being arrested. At the point that you’re throwing tables and computers, you’re at an extremely unhealthy/dangerous level of stress.

  17. Drake Says:

    What do you think is going to happen to a person at an extremely unhealthy/dangerous level of stress when you add any amprage through his heart and the weight of 2 officers on his neck and chest? He did not grab his chest and fall to the ground until he was hit with a taser. There have been 17 death linked to taser use since 2003. How many people have died from the stress of just being arrest? Try to be serious about this. Fine we understand your a taser fanatic but the body was not designed to haddle current of any level and any current added will cause undesired effects.

  18. inkslwc Says:

    I’m working on getting those numbers now – but it may take a while, so give me some time with this one.

  19. Drake Says:

    A correction on your previous post the Taser 26 produces an average of 2.1 mA according to the specs on the web site. So it may be slightly higher or lower. Aswell if the probes pierce the skin greater damage can be caused. Operating voltage for the Taser 26 is 50,000 Volts. Keep that in mind when reading the example from the US OSHA.

    Here is a quote from The occupation Health and Safety web site

    High voltage electrical energy greatly reduces the body’s resistance by quickly breaking down human skin. Once the skin is punctured, the lowered resistance results in massive current flow.
    Ohm’s law is used to demonstrate the action.
    At 1,000 volts, Current = Volts/Ohms = 1,000/500 = 2 Amps
    which can cause cardiac standstill and serious damage to internal organs.

    http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/construction/electrical_incidents/eleccurrent.html

  20. inkslwc Says:

    Sorry. 2.1 mA. But even on your website (OSHA), up to 5 isn’t lethal. And the newer models (which I’m assuming are being used in Vancouver) don’t use skin-penetrating probes. And you’re saying it can cause cardiac standstill? No – even before you said it would cause stress, not cardiac arrest. You’re changing your arguments to make your point look better.

    (On a side note, the site I found of police brutality and related deaths is down/not working for me (http://www.copwatch.com/), but if you can get it to work, can you look it up for me?)

  21. Drake Says:

    I never said it would cause stress. It would cause abnormal heart rythms/flutters in the heart. When stressed the heart beats faster but not abnormal.

    The probes would have to be piercing or how else would they stay on a person. I would agree that they would not have pierced the skin if he was wearing a coat but by the looks of the video all he had on was a shirt.

  22. Joe Says:

    Have you seen some of those fat Canadian officers? Do you really expect them to be able to wrestle. They are heartless fat pigs looking for easy pray. Do you know what if police respond time in Canada when you really need them?

  23. John Mensink Says:

    One can condemn the officers who use the tasers to subdue people but I believe we have to look deeper to find the root cause for the “misuse” of tasers i.e. the attitude of the management echelon in instructing of members of the various police forces. By that I mean that there appears to be an attitude of
    “guilty until proven innocent” instead of the other way around

  24. inkslwc Says:

    But when you’re a cop, you can’t go around with an innocent until guilty mentality, or you’ll wind up shot – that’s why we leave this for juries to decide.

  25. David Zuskin Says:

    Taser X26 may be 2.1 mA ‘AVERAGE’, but it is 151 mA RMS. This is on the complete specification sheet for the X26 taser.

    So for those that are using this ‘2 mA is safe’ argument, how about now?

    For those that don’t know about RMS, consider this: The electricity in your house is 120 volts AC RMS, but is ZERO volts ‘Average’. RMS is the proper method to measure AC waveforms. Quality digital multi-meters all default to measuring RMS values for all AC voltage and current measurements.

    I say it is very misleading to claim that the X26 taser is only a couple of milliamperes when the RMS value is actually 151 mA.

  26. inkslwc Says:

    Did you ever take a class where you talked about electricity?

    You don’t measure pulsed current with with RMS. You use RMS to calculate alternating currents (AC), because when you use average current calculations, it would equal zero (because it ALTERNATES between positive and negative). That’s why your house average is 0.

    And the squaring mehtod of RMS distorts the peaks of the TASERs – you square the peak (and the paus – 0) before averaging, and then square root. Although it gives an approximation, the number is not exact and is inflated.

    That’s why electricians don’t use RMS for pulsed currents.

  27. True Canadian Says:

    Yes he was tased. Yes the police made a bad judgement call. And yes he did. And most importantly, most normal Canadians are very ashamed of this incident. But do not say that this is a bad country. We too have our faults just like very other country. It isn’t that bad. Not even close. If you think police walk around tasing people you are a moron. Say what you will, but we are a decent country and I say that proudly. -True Canadian

  28. Drake Says:

    The truth now comes out about the tasers. They are now being pulled because they did not meet the manufactures specifications. The currents were higher than specified.

    from article: In a news release Wednesday, the RCMP said it has removed from service and is testing 24 model X26 Tasers manufactured before 2006, following a CBC/Radio Canada investigation that revealed some older Tasers generated electrical currents that were more powerful than indicated by the manufacturer.

    see complete article for details: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1060612

  29. PissedOff Says:

    You’re a fucking idiot, like I’m going to jump into your bandwagon and agree to this bullshit. The Taser contributed to the mans death, stfu.

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